Berserker Tanking?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Victros, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Norathorr Augur

    Beeserkers back in the day made ok light tanks. We had good base dps and stun and snare to hold aggro. The negative side was that we mitigated worse than a real tank and the end costs while tanking were high so you often had little left to disc on named. The state of the berserker is pretty poor from what I have read. We mitigate worse than other melee and I think (perhaps im wrong) we still have no block aa. Instead we are a self harming ill conceived concept of a melee that to do our best damage require more support than any other class and to be stuck to the ground in a game that push is a massive issue. My advice is don't play one. The glory day of the berserker as a unique and interesting class that left room for multiple play style are over.
  2. Gragas Augur

    Not sure I want to tank to be considered any type of tank, just to be able to mitigate damage so I can do my job, live and DPS.
  3. fransisco Augur

    How does being the top parsing melee dps make your class in a poor state?
    Better tanking = less dps.
  4. Gragas Augur

    Really wish casters would stay in the caster forums. Dead DPS does no DPS.
    RagePaw likes this.
  5. RagePaw Augur

    This. We are not really talking about tanking, we are talking about general mitigation to help us survive and do our job in a raid setting. Our lack of mitigation is a problem.
  6. RagePaw Augur

    AND let me just say before a dev looks at this and cobbles together what they consider to be a good idea based on runes, DO NOT GIVE BERSERKERS RUNES unless you intend to remove the hit point dependency on most of our skills.
  7. Gladare Augur

    I could be wrong, but didn't y'all just receive an ability that allows you to use runes and still reach your 90% requirement quite easily?
  8. RagePaw Augur

    The skill you refer to is called Open Wounds.

    I don't want to be playing the game at a constant 90% hit point level.
    I think that's an unfair way to push berserkers. I have to use a skill every 2minutes that requires the 90% hit point level, why? I don't really want to have a skill that keeps me at the 90% hit point mark without allowing me to gain those lost 10% hit points back.

    Yes, you could argue I could click the buff off but that's another extra click, more than I currently have to do with the standard self harm AA. not a huge deal normally, but an absolute pita during laggy raid burns. The alternative is to buff block the buff inside my burn macro (will try that tonight)

    Ultimately a horrible mechanic that if they had asked us we could have fleshed out something far more appealing. Like:

    Add an AA to make the current self harm aa take us to 90% hp but immediately allow us to heal back to 100% hp.
    Make all skills that require the hp requirement to automatically take us to 90% hp on use.

    Remove the requirement? I don't see any lore regarding berzerkers self harming, wildly flinging axes about causing others damage is far more fitting.
  9. Caudyr Augur

    LOL. Yeah, our utilities let us do some stuff...but I still have mobs in T3/T4 RoF hit me for max damage really often...and doing these (at least T4 RoF+ with just myself + merc) requires me to be fully 'raid buffed' with every single buff that maximizes my defensive/offensive abilities. Even then, I die before long quite a bit...so it's really not worth even bothering with. -_-
  10. Caudyr Augur

    This is a problem for rogues, too...so hopefully if they put something together for berserkers (that, as you said, does not include runes :p)...rogues will also get it.
    For the first line of the quote...I'm honestly surprised they didn't implement them in this fashion from the start. It'd make more sense, tbh.

    About removing the requirement...the lore is that berserkers sacrifice defense in return for offense, iirc (though...at least for a really long time, they still tanked pretty darn well, heh)...and they go to great lengths to increase their offense via blood rage, etc. Lore-wise, it would likely fit that berserkers 'overextend' their muscles, senses, etc to generate more damage, at the cost of damaging their bodies physically.

    Thus, I'd say don't remove the requirement specifically...but change it to reduce your hp by 10%. Could also instead have it reduce your hp by 10% if it's above it...or not do anything if it's below it. However, having the abilities that require you be under 90% health instead simply damage you to bring you down that far if you are at 100% health (or lower, if you're already at 91% or something...just damaging you in general, heh) would be a good alternative, imo.
  11. fransisco Augur

    So...
    Berzerkers - who already out tank casters (which depend on runes to even last 2 rounds against group mobs) want increased tanking ability, but have it always on. No runes or limiting factors. Simply because they are potentially the best dps in the game.
  12. Phrett Augur

    No.

    We're talking about surviving the types of raid mechanics we have to deal with, making them more manageable. I don't, nor any of the other berserkers most likely, want to be a viable tank (or offtank, etc) because we prefer being pure DPS. But as Gragas has already stated and you seem to have overlooked, dead dps = no dps. Please keep in mind that melee take more damage during the events than casters in almost all situations.

    *another note* This goes for rogues as well, it's not just berserkers in this boat. Monks of course are fine right now as far as survivability.
  13. Gragas Augur

    Sounds like you have not bought Shield of Fate nor Staff Block?
  14. fransisco Augur

    Sounds like you haven't tried life without raid gear
  15. Gragas Augur

    Nope, and pretty sure now you have been commenting on something you don't understand if you don't raid.
    Phrett likes this.
  16. Brutality Journeyman

    Sounds like you haven't played a group geared Berserker taking hits in current group content. Or more likely you're just another negative forum poster who for some reason enjoys stagnation and ignorance of other classes and their in game abilities.
  17. Norathorr Augur

    As for berserker tanking, it used to be a viable option. I remember back in the demiplane era when I was equipped in mostly cultural and after maxing dps mods I would go all out ac. In a group I could hold aggro with snares stuns. The downside was that I could not dps disc much as I was spending a lot of end tanking. I could never be as efficient as a real tank in groups but I was a viable alternative while we were waiting for one to turn up. When I last played during VoA berserkers could not tank for s!!! At that point unlike most if not all other classes we had no block aa. Berserkers are a variant on the warrior and that is why I initially picked one. I wanted to be a high dps pure melee in your face fighter, who when not going berserk had fundamental warrior traits. For many years the class delivered on this, now we appear to be a class that can do decent burst as was always the case, but can do nothing else in a world where hybrids and casters seem to have caught up with us a lot on dps but seem to sacrifice zero utility. If you are going to play a melee that is not a plate tank with the ambition of tanking occasionally I would say monk or ranger. Ranger probably has far better aggro utility, but monk is probably better at surviving at the expense of so many snap aggro tools. As for berserker until a lot of things change with the class don't waste your time leveling this broken class. The only thing you will get on a berserker is the occasional glory parse when all support classes are paying attention and the mob is perma rooted. Admittedly I have not played since VoA, but from what I have read and talking to some old guildies including brogett, not a lot has changed.

    All the best
    Ogrebane (retired hoping to one day return when the devs actually understand the mess they have made of this once awesome class)
  18. Norathorr Augur

    Sorry for two replies I thought my first one had not worked as I did it on my phone and looked like Internet had gone down!
  19. Norathorr Augur

    You do realise that to be 'Top parsing melee dps' the mob has to be perma rooted or else the raid force has to create zero push (Good luck on that one) and we have to have perfect support from Shaman Beastlord and Bard. Most guilds dont have the capability to have enough bards to throw around for everyone. Also that top parse will equate to a small burst part of a fight. After that we flag badly on sustained. We also have no viable way to get back to full power fast when we die like a caster.
    Secondly we are a melee class that has to put up with AE ramp and when the tank drops we are often more so than any other melee class the one that gets smacked immediately and this includes before casters. We have discs that are constantly harming us and given no block aa, potentially less survivability that a wizard and thats not even counting runes. A blocked hit from a raid mob is alot better than a poorly mitigated one.

    The way this class started out appealed to me greatly. A warrior that favors offense over defense, but stemming from a warrior none the less. The berserker was not a fighter that hides or trys very hard to stay out of the firing line. This implied that it should be to some degree a tough fighter that should be expected to take some hits every now and then. The class has unfortunately diverted into some paper weight self harmer which cripples itself to the point that it cant move. Does this sound like a good class concept to anyone anymore?!
  20. Velora Journeyman

    Don't have to be perma rooted, and it's based on the event which melee (monk or berserker) will take top melee parse (feel bad for rogues, though they did get slight boosts). All melee need good support to reach max dps, so bringing up shaman, beastlord, and bard synch. isn't as applicable when commenting on melee dps in comparison to melee. With current content berserkers have several events that they easily top the melee parse; a lot of it is situational. You have not played since VoA, as you stated, but there are events that monks can't hope to touch berserker dps, especially if in a top tier guild. Everyone isn't in one, but it doesn't mean the class isn't capable of it. And many times people overlook the skill, or lack there of, of the player.