I am playing a Berserker in a raiding guild and i noticed we got very little new AAs and abilities in VOA compared to rogues and monk. Both monks and rogues needed a boost to sustained so this is warrented, however it seems that rogues are now better burst than berserkers in 9/10 cases (the 1 case being when a berserker can root himself on a mob). Berserkers got least utility of melee classes (of all classes?) and we do not seem to be on top of melee parser unless its valley mob where its rooted, am i missing something or does this seem wrong? - a good rogue versus a good berserker the rogue will win out on most mobs and equal on sustained parses.
Berserkers and Rogues are both good at burst DPS. A lot depends on support classes. Berserkers gain more from Bards Aria - due to only the Primary flurries Shaman Epic - both classes gain the same Bst - Rogues do get a self HH effect, so the difference if they don't have Kolos isn't as great. If you are both have that, then the Berserker should edge out the Rogue in a <1min parse. Also this is my Pro Tip and probably not many folks know this. For a berserker the best Burn weapon is not the one with the highest ratio.
Make sure your getting all the support you need, shaman, bard, Beastlord Fero, Rank IIi haste, anything you need to amp your damage as high as you can. Do some research. Chances are. The players that are out DPSing you know what support they need, the right people to ask for it, and little hidden tidbits to maximize damage potential. Do some groundwork yourself. And you will utterly bury them. A good zerker can damn near out burn anyone.
I don't know. Your weapons should sustain you quite well until you find a new trinket; the Zerker weapons on game already are ungodly. I sure wouldn't want to stand on the other side and get hit by one! That's for sure. But, again, a new expansion.. Everyone increases. Marginally but you should know this! We are what.... 17... 18? Something like that...
I appreciate your replies, but i am mainly looking for replies from other DPS classes from top raiding guilds that have seen these things and not just the 60 sec rooted parse of a berserker on valley target (which they dont even win anyway). I have assembled a good number of parses now from different good guilds and the tendency seems to be the same, rogues are better dps than Berserkers at the time, even on quick bursts (provided that both do their best). auto attack damage is about the same with same tier weapon (berserkers win a little rooted), but side stuff such as volley, axe of illdaere and conquering frenzy loses out to rogue backstab abilities and their dot, big time. This makes alot of sense as Berserkers are burn orienteret, rogues have 2 weapons with ratio 6,5 we have one with ratio 9, our burn helps our auto attack a ton with crit, but our side stuff doesnt compare at all. VOA gave berserker almost nothing because berserkers were where they were suppose to be in HOT (at the very top), if this trend continues berserkers will be dog food in next expansion - this is a prediction, lets see what happens, i predict small upgrades to existing lines and rogues will continue to just outright do a better job.
sorry that was perhaps a negative way to look at it, but i already rerolled from monk to berserker because i wanted the melee class with LEAST utility and thereby supposedly highest dps. currently berserkers doesnt live up to their reputation (a reputation that gained force in HOT).
i would be glad to see your parses on bronze, alra, event 1 og 2 in sepulcher, valley, rubak. just to have comparisson, will you sent a tell in game with it? [tell antonius.bighitz or send one here on forum, wont hold it against you, just trying to collect data.
Zerkers really rely on their support classes, if you are not getting the support you need(get better bards/shammies/beastlords), the monk and rogues will outparse you. Monks get Diamondpalm, rogues get Eradicator's, we still have ACOC, even though these 2 self buffs are significantly better in every shape and form. Also, most of their burn discs seem to be on lower reuse than our preferred SS/RA combo since RA does not repop in time to reuse with SS every time SS repops. To be honest, you should as a zerker at least be in top 10 for most combined parses, unless your death, latency, type of fight(crowd controlling etc.). length of fight (you running out of endurance, due to our fade having a suck recast compared to other melee classes) you not clicking discs or death of your support classes affects your DPS. Also, Enchanter please go back to your forums, nothing personal but I have been killed by "charmed pets" enough to hate enchanters who think they know "anything" about DPS. Just haste me and press on with your enchanter duties and mezz/stun the adds.
Thanks alot for your reply Gragas. I agree we are the most support dependent class and i am also being 1-5 on almost every parse (except very sustained where necros dominate). But at the time i got all focus effects, i got the AAs and i got a tier 4 raid weapon and i am smashing the same stuff as everyone else on berserker forum and rooting myself when plausible, but i just cant catch a good rogue that does the same so i went ahead and asked for unbiased parses of various mobs from different good guilds and overall this has not changed my view, unfortunately. Behelit did some nice ones tho, thumbs up mate =). Gragas is it possible you can send me some of your parses (not bragging parses, but real events that matter), so i can see where you are in relation to your best rogues.
Couple of couple things I wanted to point out: 1. All melee classes need proper support to attain anywhere close to their potential dps, so brd, shm, and now bst (Kolos). 2. Rogs made out like bandits in VoA, gaining a lot from their hh effect. They were the clear winners from the melee in that expansion. I'm not sure what zerks got, but monks got nothing for sure. The situation now is that all 3 are roughly equivalent in sustained, non-disc dps. 3. Monks always had diamondpalm, and actually I think you will find monks have by far the longest reuse timers for melee disc. Rogs have some 10 min disciplines, and I think zerks do too. Monks have no current disc close to 10 mins. The best are closer to 20 mins. (This needs review imo). Finally, from parses I've seen, the top burns are in the order of zerks>rogs>monks (140k, 110, 80). In terms of the order due to lack of utility, I'd suggest it should be much closer between rog/mnks, or maybe increase monk sustained to have them ahead there by some margin. Zerks do seem well ahead though on burns, so perhaps you are just lacking some AAs, or some experience on burn order, since you say you have just rerolled from monk....
At the current state Berserkers more dependent on support than the 2 other meeles, party because you procc an awesome HH effect and party cuz monk speedfocus is in fact a 50% hundred hand (or approx). I rerolled berserker in VOA because i wanted to do the most Dps with least utility and played monk before (to 95 and max AA). and in VOA berserker got almost nothing except alot lower reuse on main disc (which is of course handy, but doesnt higher dps). we got 3 ranks of savage spirit but the increase was so miniscule, i would rather have Crane stance and tiger balance to go with my burn than what we got thats for sure . before i make this sound as a whining contest (at which i am the winner), i would just like to get a clear picture from as many sources as possible as to wether it has something to do with the way i play my class, the way my support works or lastly how rogues do compared to berserkers.
The title of your thread is comparing berserker to other melee, not just rogue. Speed focus, which has not been upgraded in many years, does not stack with the hh effect, which incidently rogues also have. And its not 50, its 25 hh. Crane is nice eye candy, but even with that we are not close to zerk dps. Tiger's balance? Why the hell would you want that? At least you got reduced discipline reuse timers. I bet none of yours are 30 min reuse? In the same group setup, you should be killing rogues and monks on burns. You probably just need to optimise your burn set up, what with being a new zerk. I'm sure you'll figure it out...
to be clear, I rerolled from monk because they werent top melee DPS, so i am not saying anything else! - that comment was strictly as to who gets the most out of beastlord and bard support (as a way to explain, why my dps is where it is). Just to conclude, it seems now from information that i have gathered that Berserkers are infact top melee dps, and it comes down to support as well as having burns put into macrobuttons instead of individual buttons (too big a period at start up where i click buttons instead of burning full force). Thanks alot guys for helping out, it has been much appreciated .
I think I should be honoured Bighitz, making an assumption or two ;-) It's a hard one to judge. For sure peak berserker burst, with best support, best gear and stars in alignment is better than peak rogue burst (with equal conditions). However that doesn't mean they're better on average. Maybe they are, maybe they're not, but we need more than cherry picking parses to know that for sure. A case in point is the claim for berserkers to use slower weapons. I'm not entirely convinced it helps the mean of the distribution, but it probably does help the peak (and the minimum). Is that desireable? Your call... My gut instinct says that we're pretty close overall and it's a healthy competition. Some fights you should win, some I should win, some even Agge (monk) will win if they're messy with lots of mobs combined together over a longer parse. We could do with wiz being in there more often too, but in the short duration events the competition isn't *so* distorted yet.
Agreed on 1. Maybe berserkers gain more, but it's not a huge difference and we're all pathetically weak without any support compared to, say, casters without support. Regarding 2, I think you mean rogs made out like bandits in VoA, gaining a lot from *YOUR* hh effect. ;-). Monks had it a full year before rogs did, so you had your year of glory. Next year maybe it'll be someone else. EQ goes in cycles.
