Berserker Class Modification Priority Discussion

Discussion in 'Melee' started by minimind, Feb 14, 2022.

  1. 666DPSweDeliver Augur

    More like mildly interesting results, even at 26k dps, its contributing a mere 3% of total DPS.
  2. minimind The Village Idiot

    More Fun Parse Results - Melee Hits per Round

    Problem: Weapons and hastes are "too fast" to reliably separate combat rounds. We can see how many hits we make in a time period, but how many hits are we making per round?

    Methodology
    • Weapon: Weighted Axe (45 damage, 150 Delay)
    • Haste: 117%
      • No buffs, no item haste.
      • Only 17% overhaste (Ancient Flames AA Item Effect)
    • No disciplines
    • All relevant AAs
    • Ferocity XIII
    • Level 119 Combat Dummy
    • Parse Duration: 23.17 hours (too much work, not enough EQ)
    • All non-slash attack log entries removed (misses remain as they count as a hit attempt)
    • Count of valid messages within the same second = count of hits within that round
    Results
    • Combat rounds were separated by multiple seconds
    • 6,535 total combat rounds
    • 32.31% of combat rounds had a "flurry" message
    • Hit Distribution:
    [IMG]
  3. minimind The Village Idiot

    Further Statement on Avenging Flurry (and that whole line) based on the parsing--

    Avenging Flurry Rank III (House of Thule)
    1: Increase Chance of 1 Additional 2H Attacks by 100%
    2: Increase Chance to Double Attack by 10000%
    3: Decrease Weapon Delay by 24.8%
    4: Increase Chance to Flurry by 17%


    A. I parsed here (link) showing that Avenging Flurry Rank III increases hit attempts per second by 31.41%. (No other hundred hands effect in use.)

    B. Avenging Flurry rank III decreases weapon delay by 24.8% (Hundred Hands Effect) and can account for a major portion of Avenging Flurry's increase in hit attempts per second.

    C. Beastlord (Ruaabri & Composite; 33.8%) and Bard (Quicktime; 15%) abilities all but nullify the majority of the benefit of the Avenging Flurry Hundred Hands effect in uptime and power. Thus, the remaining value comes from the increase to Flurry, Double Attack, and Additional Hit.

    D. My parse here (link) shows that 99.76% of berserker attack rounds already attempt double-attack or better rounds, so Avenging Flurry's double-attack bonus is almost completely useless.

    E. Thus, the vast majority of the value of this discipline is in its very minor boosts to flurry and +1 additional hit attempt per round.

    Proposal
    1. Increase the flurry mod massively.
    2. Boost the extra hit attempt significantly.
    3. Extend the duration to 1 minute (from 30 seconds)
    4. Reduce the reuse from 15 minutes to 10 minutes.
    Cadira likes this.
  4. minimind The Village Idiot

    Follow-Up Post (Jan 19, 2023)

    Expansion launched December 6, 2022

    Burn Disciplines
    1. Mangling Discipline - No change
    2. Disconcerting Discipline - No change
    3. Brutal Discipline - Added duration and reduced reuse timer via AA ranks
    4. Cleaving Acrimony - Reduced reuse timer via AA ranks
    5. Frenzied Resolve - No change
    6. Avenging Flurry - No change
    Sustained DPS
    1. Weapon ratio - Berserker-only raid and group weapons added. Requires ore drops, thus will be very rare within the population due to the new "ore" system.
      1. Raid: Spectral Luclinite Poleaxe
      2. Group: Apparitional Luclinite Poleaxe
      3. There is a request for these to increase delay (and damage accordingly) meet conventional knowledge about maximum berserker DPS via higher delay, similar ratio weapons.
    2. Crit. Power - Increased via AA ranks
    3. Decapitation - No change
    4. Damage Modifier - Increased the percentage damage modifier at ranks 18/19/20 of Innate Rage to 100/110/120.
    Other
    1. Stinging Incision (Reduce endurance cost) - No change
    2. Ability Names (Rename to reduce confusion) - No change
    Commentary
    Our suggestions are being acted upon, but the Devs look to be adding power cautiously. We're not getting boosted at the same rate as other DPS classes.
    Whipalox likes this.
  5. 666DPSweDeliver Augur

    Disagree completely that TS ore based raid weapons will be rare, simply save the coin and buy them from the vendor. No other drop produces a difference in your DPS unless you lack raid gear completely so it's the first thing you should buy if you cant get it via drops. It's also arguably the only drop you need all year as a raider.

    Insofar as disc go, the discussion on disconcerting disc is completely a red herring unless they decouple it from sharing a timer with mangling. Disconcerting may be better than nothing, but since its locked out, it doesn't matter.

    The competitive component of our DPS is our singular 60 second primary burn (every 26 minutes), everything else is a small improvement over no disc but fall well short of being competitive DPS. And there lies our problem, a raid would be better served on having the zerker gate out after the primary burn and swapping in another DPS class. We go from wow to are you even attacking. The posts above detail the why, we have hit hard caps years ago and further boosting those discs is challenging.

    The state of rogues shows a path forward, enable us to have a disc running all the time by increasing the duration of discs and greatly reducing reuse timers. Unfortunately, they choose to give us minor changes to alternate discs which are a minor increase in DPS. The disc to go after is mangling as its the primary source of our DPS. Cut the reuse to 10 minutes and lengthen its duration.

    For avenging flurry, combine its effects with disconcerting and remove the shared timer between disconcerting and mangling. Increase the duration to 3 minutes and give it a 3 minute reuse timer so thats its almost always available as the sustained DPS disc, which was what it was originally designed for.

    Frenzied resolve. Eh, the root is too harsh for a disc that if you did not use, no one would notice.

    Move away from proc based damage, as an overall % of our DPS it goes down every year and is contributing to the lag. Build that damage into our base weapon damage and since they are committed to TS ore as the top tier weapon, design a zerker only 2 hander. Remove decap, it was fun when introduced, its grossly lagged behind from the game changing attack it was when introduced. The roughly 30K dps it contributes to a roughly 700k sustained DPS is a joke, add it to base weapon damage.
  6. minimind The Village Idiot

    In prior expansions, the very first raid ore a zerk earned could be turned into the weapon upgrade. One or two ores would drop at the end of every raid event and getting one would just be a matter of DKP. The same would go go grouping zerks-- except you could get a best-in-slot weapon within the first couple days of the expansion launching because you can do so many more missions in the time it takes for 3 raid events (tier 1) to refresh their replay timers.

    With NoS' ore system, the ores are slot specific, so where every single raid event used to result in the opportunity to make your best raid weapon, it may be weeks until many of us see a "power" ore at all.

    When it comes to buying the ore, the opportunity to purchase an ore with currency is only available to raiders, and takes 30+ completed raid events to afford, so it's very likely that zerks with new raid 2-handers will be relatively rare for a while yet.

    Group zerks don't even have the purchase option. Group currency only buys only type 5 augs and containers. They can only look forward to the chance of a drop.

    I think we're going to see significantly fewer zerk ore two-handers in the wild as a result with, as you know, the majority coming from raid currency purchases.
  7. Szilent Augur

    this is incorrect.
  8. minimind The Village Idiot

    I don't know how I missed it. You are correct. I will remove the statement. The cost is 469 currency.
    Szilent likes this.