Bards the worse class???

Let me start saying I used to play EQ 1 regularly, then changed to WOW, came back to EQ 10 years ago or so and quit again after another year of playing. Back then bards were pretty well thought of. I did not play one then but I remember going to raids and if there was no bards it was not good.

So one year ago I came back and made a bard. I had been playing my bard x one year, I love it. I mostly box.

Now then I grouped with others and I was told by them that the bard is the worse class in EQ.
I am not sure if it is that I am just terrible at it or is this so?

When I box I can tell if my bard is not doing the songs and I find them really helpful when I use them. My main is an SK and I have a cleric healer.

So what is the current bard situation... i had mostly played the bard in my box team so I can't say how it is in other groups.

Any feedback will be appreciated..

PS I still like my bard regardless what any one says. It helps me boxing.. just saying.

No.

People can view and play bards in 2 radically different ways:

Unskilled support role - Mindlessly leave a bard in group to twist buffs. Or,

Skilled main (battle) role - Proper usage of DoTs, charms, Fade, nuke/synergy, leap, run cast clicks, etc.

I will admit that bards can feel underpowered since they nerfed swarm kiting. There's also a sort of gulf between min-max, complete AA bards (with more powerful DoT AAs) and starter bards on Live. Bards shine on TLP (at least on Vaniki) with charm.

This is a simplified view. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses, personality, and fit.

To elaborate on:

The only people who think Bards are bad are those who don't understand how to actually play one. Even as a boxed, they can do extremely well if you put in effort beyond /melody and /autoattack

What level is your bard? The single-target DoT songs get dramatically better with Torment of Velious. There is a problem of a sea of virtually worthless stuff and needing to know what is worth it, but I think that's a problem the game has in general for many classes. As has been stated, the DoT AAs make a huge difference, but the songs themselves got better too.

This feels like a troll.

But I will continue reguardless.

Assuming the dps players are average to better to elite, a bard will indirectly impact dps greatly. Yes others can as well. But impact is indirect. Some songs apply a mod pre crit, some post crit. Damage mods, damage add ons. As said above, some good alot bad. Extended mana regen is thing for casters and Hydra classes.

A team of bards now that next level.

Example dpselitedingdong42 claims, Me gud, Me badass Me did this or that.
Bards just smile.

He is level 120... still working on AAs.. getting burst power almost done now.

Once you have the critical AA I'd say work on DoT stuff over things like burst of power. I'm sure my style, especially insult synergy usage, could be adjusted. The only point of the below is to show how important DoTs are to a bard's individual DPS. And this is with weapons only beat by the recent anniversary raid. I'd imagine in group gear, the DoTs would be an even larger percent.

If your mobs are dying very quickly, that may change though. This is probably the most bard DPS friendly raid in the expansion, Aten Ha Ra, so it's an example of when the DoTs can be used to great effect.

Edit: Bah, it shows the image paste but then it isn't there. I'll just type the important part:
On that particular fight last win, DoTs were 43% of all my damage. Procs were 20%. Slashes were 16.7%, Pierces 9.3%, and Kicks only 4%. Swarm pets aren't even worth mentioning from a DPS perspective for our class.

To the original statement, the effect of ADPS (what you enhance for others) isn't super obvious without a bunch of testing that is beyond the scope of my knowledge, so my comment is only about single DPS even though ADPS is our strongest aspect. Unless your mobs are dying quickly, DoT before melee focus in the AA.

Also, the bard epic 2.0 click is still important to this day.

Bards are the most popular class in raid forces and essential to most optimal 6 man groups. In some ways they're the best class in live EQ currently and it'd be hard not to put them in top 5.

Some players may (wrongly) consider bards a poor class because they may struggle to see what the bard adds i.e. they improve anyone but may only do a moderate amount of stuff on their own

Actually I love my bard and regardless of what this player told me, in my box team, he does great. I use my mage/ pets, druid and SK tank and it works wonderful for me.
I was just wondering if I was missing something that has transpired with bards in the last 10 years because as I said when I used to raid if there was not a bard it was bad news... just saying.

thanks for the replies.

You're right. Bards could use a huge bump in dps. Also my dad always used to complain "your music is so loud it could wake the dead" so I think bards should get some kind of ae res song.
/poe

give me 9 bards on every raid. . that would be so nice.

Would anyone be so kind as to run through your lvl 120 spell bar and melody when using dots? I feel like this is the next step for my Bard. Do you reset the melody for every mob? Which songs would I give up?

Currently twisting:
Aria
War March
Arcane Harmony
Spry Sonata
Pulse of Nikolas
Song of Suffering
Spiteful Lyric
Constance Aria
Insult
Composite Psalm
Chant of Flame

I am typically grouped with SK, Shammy, Mage and Ranger.

Thanks!

I don’t necessarily agree that bards need “a huge bump in DPS.” It’s more an issue of streamlining the DPS gains in the class through the levels.

What I feel is a major issue for the bard relates to how different they play than other classes. Certain subtle things pop up that make the class feel clunky, at best, and bugged out, at worst.

For example, we all know how much better it’d be for clicky items we use to be instant cast. For many classes it would be unfair but for bards it isn’t about power; it’s the fact that items with cast times have a high chance of locking out our cast bar.

i'd get rid of spry sonata, pulse, song of suffering, spiteful, constance, arcane, and composite (when not in quicktime). The amount of dps added from synergy > any of the songs that add damage like constance etc.
perhaps something like aria war march insult dot 1 dot 2 insult dot 3 dot 4 insult. Or can start with adps songs before engage and go right into the dps stuff.

If your boxing or playing with a small group, I would go with the 4 dots first (when you have all your DOT AAs maxed). There isn't a big difference between Aria and Aura to justify starting your aria first and war march isn't likely to add 500k damage in 6 seconds even in a group of melee.

Bards... one of the LEGIT strongest most stackable classes (on raids 8 plus or even in a group setting 2 is awesome) there is in the game.

In group play they are highly sought after for the adps they bring, pulling isn't really a thing anymore like the old days though but if its needed they are amazing at that.. double invis etc.. really isn't anything they cannot do well, they not only boost dps but boost heals, tanking... you name it.

On raids they can be thrown in ANY group.. melee dps, caster dps, tank groups. If any guild is lucky they run 6-8 bards and would add more if they could. Not to mention if your worth your salt you can lay down some respectable dps as well.

So nice troll... and if it wasn't a troll you just do not know how to play the class. Even as a stinky song bot they are amazing.

I'm consistently top 10 on our raid's DPS parse. In fact we have 3 or 4 bards knocking out top 15 numbers, they're just that strong. The top 5 is necros, mages, occasional rogue and BL. The more bards you have, the better they all become, and the better each and every group becomes as well.

For all the bard players that are so proud of their personal DPS I have a simple question.
If you want to lead the league in some DPS fashion why did you make a bard?
We have may addative style songs and yet to read most posts it is insults, DOTS and bellow to
the near or total exclusion of any other songs. I have a guildie who won't sing cressendo because it takes endurance away from his bellows. REALLY??
If all you sing are DPS style songs you are cheating your group, raid or otherwise, by denying them
the goodness of more mana or AC or even damage for them and their attacks.
Bards are great toons for those that want to actually play them.