Bards: Mana Regen

those don't work on bards, though? Quiet Prayer in particular doesn't, nor Focused Paragon, nor Reflexive Rejoinder, nor any of the more general group abilities. If all those all the way down to, like, Clarity, worked, then this conversation would be super different.

correct. none of those things work on a bard. bard mana isn't like any other class. beyond Rally Solo and mod rods. you run OOM, you're just OOM

Im still not clear on why even ooc I still need to sit to regen mana/end. Our meditation is capped at 1 so why does sit help?

agreed.

Bards should only get OOC regen when running at a velocity of 70 or higher.

Out of combat regeneration is a separate, special function that lets you regenerate health, mana, and endurance from empty to full in no longer than 3 minutes (~3.3% per tick), and sitting (or mounted and not moving) is just the requirement they added to make it work.

Or make Acumen actually function as a spell instead of a junk buff #ShamanLove

The entire so called regen issue bards are having it really not an issues. PURE and simple. Raiding a bard, I know for a fact I can get my rez jump up and be useful to my group and still have decent DPS. My dot songs which are beastly require no mana, Yes I am not gonna be using bellow because endurance is now done. My group buff songs require no mana. So all this I want more crap and monks get blah crap is the blind leading the stupid. There is no other class that could take multiple deaths in the same raid and be as close to as useful as bard. Bards have a good life. All I have read here is that
1. People are not looking at all their song options and don't have no mana song line ups mem'd
2. Way over reliant on Bellow, if Bellow means that much to you, then you are doing it wrong. (OH and I took 2 Deaths in the GD raid the other night cause I was tanking off mobs that were not picked up cause we were short tanks and it was EARLY in the fight oh yea still managed 328k DPS over the entire event and bellow was not really an option)
3. Going back to cookie cutter solutions and avoiding the challenge of looking for ways to excel when you dont have all your tools.
4. I am surprised Have not seen --- How do I key bind my bard

Cuth i know have disagree in past and i believe its roster to roster situation if not just a playstyle difference.
1. Yes we and I have no or low mana song line ups options. Mana based ones either peak, 50% resource of mana as well as no mana ones.
2. Yes bellow and shout eat end. maybe some recast too fast im not 100%.
3. I think this more of issue people min max the ideal setup, and if differ from that core set, they cry. Its an adjust and ok with it, and one of thing i enjoy about barding in raiding is adjustments, aka im always in dps only groups, i jump into tank or rarely super ae healer group.
4. Bind i think i understand, maybe common dps term but not bard friendly. Review of how min max a no brainer melody is bards bind and subject been posted zillions of times. So imho you seen it.

I like bard tov dots, but in roster i raid with, there is no debuff slots open. Maybe that a roster issue, but often have shamans, druids, and few active necs loading up, Bst eat a few to min max alliance. For us is choice for the bards NOT use dots as overall dps gain of raid is not better or worst with it or without it.

Bulk of groups regular dps is from min max bard alliance, they have 1 tick to use the proc and can proc more often once use if the bard is nuking more often. Knowing your group activity levels I have not seen synergy unused when oddly stacked 2 bards in 1 group before, Mentoring a younger bard and new events for him/her.

Lets look at the math, if get a lucky twincast with crit dot, assuming this within some adps mods as well, chanter, FE/epic etc. I willing to assume 1.2M damage as i believe you posted that before. That is per tick so every 6 secs, or 200k a sec per dot

Which is more? synergy proc every 1.5s at 90k to each group target that gets buffs? if we define most common bard raid group as shaman, bard, zerk, bst, rogue, xclass (monk, second zerk, ranger, whom ever) that proc is hitting 60k each second on meele or cast attack, so i say 6 plus 2 pets for 8x60k. 240k

this is assuming aria, haste, suffering, acrane are core song set.

Now i do use a dot set for adds that dont attack by roster core dot people in planned action.

Whats the point, more than 1 way to play and each bards makes that choice, Im mana driven, your not so much. I care more about raid overall dps, group dps then personal dps, from your posts, you focus on reverse order, atleast highlighing yourself.

If the goal is same, again is a choice, I hope we are both having fun playing our own way. And i wish there something better to so that flash dance back at posts.

Good day sir.

I personally prefer the way mana regen is now, BUT that is based on my play style, which is 100 perc raid oriented.

You can easily keep 3-4 dots on most raid mobs and keep the top 4 adps songs running and run 2 Sathirs. Of course running 2 Sathirs lets one dot fall off for 3-6 sec (depending on like a zillion factors of course I am specifying a perfect situation). I try to balance out personal dps with a lean towards the adps of my group. Anytime a sacrifice has to be made I always choose my groups adps.

p.s. how do I keybind my bard??

Look I want 2 insults in as much as I can there is no doubt about it. But if Rally and Mod rod are on cool down and I just popped up, time to go no mana and get in the game. Now once the mana rod refreshes, fire up an insult back in there and start rolling it.

My real point is this. Work with the tools that you have, adapt to what you can adapt to. You have rally solo just like any warrior or monk or rogue have breather/relax. It is up or it aint pretty simple. There are times where the raid cannot have you just sit there for 32 seconds either and wait to do something to the mob.
So break this down, you die you pop up and you have no mana tricks up at the time.

You can still haste, acrane, use dots, play Dirge of horizons. You can still cure, pulse mana, and the list goes on. I want you to name one other class that if they popped from a rez and all their mana/end recovery tools were on cool down could do NEARLY as much as the bard. That was the real point and this thread whether it means to or not is all about, I want to get rezed for the second time in a raid jump up and have all my abilities usable for the next 20 minutes non stop

I absolutely agree that no class is as functional after a death as bards are. Yes, I die, yes I get rezzed and start singing my songs immediately. I do run dots on raids, even after death. That does not negate the fact that I wish endurance had better regen capabilities. I never top the parse, I'm not in it for that, I'm in it to help my group do the best THEY can do by helping them do it better than they do without me.

Depends on definitions maybe, but I'd argue Warriors are the class that's best at dying (and then continuing battling after being stood up). Especially since the two-decade-late fix to res effects, which was roughly concurrent with dots becoming worth a damn. Bards "only" lose their Bellow+Shout chain, but warriors don't have that part of their power to lose.

Warriors are close but if they take that second death and relax and imp command are down, have no endurance, they are only as good as their healer and their raw AC at that point

Don't use Relax, use Breather as it's available twice as often. It "only" makes 4k endurance in its first tick compared to Relax 10k, and it only returns like 10% total these days, but warriors don't need more, and Breather doesn't cripple meleeing for most of a minute.
Never more than a minute from the next Imperator, since other warriors will (right?) be clicking theirs in rotation also.
Not many classes can operate based on the endurance from Miniature Horn of Unity, but Flash of Anger only costs 250. Like Imperator, there should be lots of those in groups, ready to go.
Carry Xygoz pots. they make 3k endurance which is enough for everything except Dissident, instantly. usable every 2 minutes.
I only feel the need for one a couple times per year, but "in extremis" the Ping's Pack Potion of Harvest (/baz "prize: ping") makes 5k endurance. There's no cool down on that bad boy, but having a cast time makes it the worst option.

none of the above are available to bards.

and even if there were NO recovery tools? Actual none? Fortitude has no start-up cost. Defensive Discipline has no start-up cost. Guardian's Bravery & Warlord's Bravery & Roaring Shield & Tenacity are item & AA clicks, no cost. Dragon Glyph doesn't depend on endurance, if you wanna get flashy. On the agro side, AET, Ageless, Blast of Anger, Projection of Fury, Gut Punch all - free. Plain Ol' Taunt, which for warriors has AA support to actually generate regular agro beyond its core function - also, obviously, free. Once initial tanking is established, Rage of Rallos is free.

Warriors best at dying. (/flex?)

Warriors have more insta rez and step combat exp, as they asked do something asap once rezzed, and good example.

I would shaman could recover fairly fast, with 3 min AA canni, or spell canni or Mod rod? Channel AA?

may take a bit but clr can heal with light and regen mana with other tools.

To a low degree chanters and mages have a few different tools and can step back quickly.

End regen on pure meele, they cant ramp up but they do something.

Yes a low mana melody with a bard can get us going again, that is 100% correct and should an option we all use. Is ideal no, nor is death.

I think lost the topic for OP, and shifted into a direction of playstyles. And the choices maybe not ideal to some, but are ideal to others, that is ok.

Later in thread, the focus much more on importance of mana to bard and if or how makes a different to performance of others? Fact is simple, if wish min max others, mana is very important. The resource to synergy proc in form of nukes (insults) is a mana drain. Alliance proc are worth another level of that stacks with style of peaking nukes. And only compounds mana use. Yes the bard himself can get results with mana free dots, and its a great option if mana is an issue.

Review the options, and be happy we have some different styles to use that ALL make an impact.

This is no sad love song, only chorus of freedom and joy. Play hard, party harder, live free.

If you arent doing alliance then I hope you have another bard doing it, and Id guess that he is the one with mana issues.

Of course ideally there would be some kind of alliance rotation so you share the load.

Two of us share the alliances, I dont have mana issues persay but I run out haha. Hate to call it an issue because you adapt to what you have.