Bard v2 haste question

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Croel, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. Croel New Member


    Stoopid question probably, but here goes:

    Level 60 Composition of Ervaj -- increases v2 haste by 10% (according to Allakh's)
    Level 10 Anthem de Arms -- increases Attack Speed by 10% (according to Allakh's)

    Q: What is the difference?

    Sorry if this has been asked before. I was reading a bunch of Bard posts and got tired of it because they didn't answer my particular question, though I did read some good stuff anyway. :)

    Thanks much!!
  2. Cadira Augur

    V2, as Allah describes it, is "over haste" which stacks with regular buff haste. Those two together would give you 20% haste. Where as if you had two regular hastes, or two over hastes, only the best would take effect.
  3. Croel New Member


    So to clarify, the L10 Anthem de Arms is effectively v1 haste?
    Szilent likes this.
  4. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Alla is not correct. It is not "over haste" as players use the term.

    It's an alternate version of normal melee speed for stacking purposes. I'll post an explainer when I get back from dinner.
    Cadira likes this.
  5. Chorus Augur

    v3 is over haste. Item haste + spell (v2) haste is capped at 100. v3 raises that cap to 125. There is a single song in there with 30% v3; however, the cap is still 125 with all 3 types combined.
  6. Croel New Member

    This is from Allakhazam's forums, posted by Loyanna in 2020:

    "v1 is WORN haste
    v2 is SPELL haste (which includes most bard songs)
    v3 is OVERHASTE (which stacks over the 200% cap)

    v1 and v2 only stack up to 100%

    Example: if you are wearing 22% haste gloves, and get a 20% v2 spell or song buff, you will have 42% haste. v3 haste stacks on top of that, and will increase your cap by the same percentage. With the level 60 Bard Song, Warsong of the Vah Shir (which gives 25% v3 haste) you would then have 67% haste with the prior example.

    If your v1 and v2 haste bring you to 100%, then the only thing that can increase your haste further is v3 haste."

    Though I am no expert (which is why I'm asking here), Loyanna's answer seems pretty good and is consistent with Chorus's answer just above this.

    But still doesn't answer my OP question. What kind of haste is the L10 Anthem de Arms? If it is only v2 haste, how is L60 Composition of Ervaj any better? And, of course, there is L36 Vilia's Verses of Celerity which increases "attack speed" by 20%. How is this not better than the level 60 song?

  7. Fanra

    Anthem de Arms de Arms&effect=&class=&level=&view=
    [701] Anthem de Arms
    Classes: BRD/10
    Skill: Singing, Max Focus: 320%
    Target: Target Group
    AE Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s
    Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Increase Melee Haste by 10%
    2: Increase STR by 67
    Text: A burst of strength surges through your body.
    Book: Utility Beneficial/HasteAn ancient anthem that increases the strength and attack rate of your group.

    Composition of Ervaj of Ervaj&effect=&class=&level=&view=
    [1452] Composition of Ervaj
    Classes: BRD/60
    Skill: Brass, Max Focus: 320%
    Target: Target Group
    AE Range: 150'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s
    Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Increase Melee Haste by 10% (v98)
    4: Increase AC by 3 to 4, Based on Class
    Text: A song of inspiration fills your weapon arm with strength.
    Book: Utility Beneficial/HasteAn ancient song that increases the attack speed of your group. This increase is cumulative with most other effects that increase attack speed.

    Vilia's Verses of Celerity's Verses of Celerity&effect=&class=&level=&view=
    [740] Vilia's Verses of Celerity
    Classes: BRD/36
    Skill: Singing, Max Focus: 320%
    Target: Target Group
    AE Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s
    Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Increase Melee Haste by 20%
    2: Increase AGI by 67
    3: Increase AC by 4 to 5, Based on Class
    Text: A burst of speed surges through your body.
    Book: Utility Beneficial/HasteAn energetic verse which hastens the attack speed of your group.
  8. Szilent Augur

    Melody of Ervaj at lv50 and Composition of Ervaj at 60 are an extremely limited run of stacking "v2" hastes. They use SPA98 instead of SPA11, which is the very same thing, just…stacks.

    At level 60 when those songs are, like, a thing, the top bard haste is Vilia's Chorus of Celerity, 45% SPA11. The top shaman haste at that level is 50%. Even stacked with the best worn haste available to level 60 raiders (41%), the cap of 100% isn't reached. So, all those times that specifically an enchanter was not around (enc haste 70%), Ervaj would close up the gap. Bard regular haste song jumps to +60% at level 62 (stays 60% all the way through Live), which is wholly sufficient for those raid players but still leaves room for Ervaj to boost characters with non-raid haste items until level… 70, looks like, is the earliest non-raid 40%? That one's pretty rare. No one has an excuse for bad haste item by 80, though.

    If it helps in thinking about it, the two Ervaj songs are "v2.1", just understand that there's more precise language available if you want it:

    Anthem de Arms, and Vilia's Verses of Celerity, and McVaxius' Berserker Crescendo, and Verses of Victory, and Vilia's Chorus of Celerity are all the most regular kind of haste, SPA11. All the SPA11 songs are called "War March of Something" after level 60. This is the same SPA11 that shaman and enchanter and beastlord haste buffs use. Also haste potions use this SPA11, and popular self-only item clickers later on in levels. While you can have on just about any number of SPA11 buffs (some may be valuable for the things they do besides SPA11, like for adding stats), only the highest % one will be adding haste.

    Only Melody of Ervaj and Composition of Ervaj use SPA98. Just like SPA11, the strongest of these effects that is on you is the one that will be working. There are no non-bard sources of SPA98 haste.

    Best Worn haste + best SPA11 + best SPA98 all add up, but are subject to an overall cap of +100%, which is double base attacking speed, so the character shows 200% haste in their inventory screen

    Starting at level 52 (TLP note: as long as Luclin expansion is open) with Battlecry of the Vah Shir, bards also get SPA119 haste songs, colloquially called by players "overhaste" or "v3". SPA119 is not subject to the cap of +100%. Non-bard sources of this kind of haste are less prolific than SPA11, but later in levels everyone gets a shabby version on their neck item. Consumable "Burning Salad" provides 25% temporarily, matching bard SPA119, but only long after bards have moved on to providing boosts to Triple Attack% and Flurry% with their "overhaste" songs.

    best Worn haste + best SPA11 + best SPA98 + best SPA119 all add up, but are subject to an overall cap of +125%, so the character shows 225% haste in their inventory screen.

    Colloquially but not mechanically related, the SPA182 "reduce weapon delay" or "HHE (Hundred Hands Effect)" is another way to make characters attack faster. It functions separately. It does not interact or stack or conflict in any interesting way with haste buffs. Both are very good.

    Asking for clarity on this subject is not a stupid question, guidance in game is…not robust.
    Croel and Fanra like this.
  9. Croel New Member

    Man, what a GREAT answer!! Thanks to all who took the time!
  10. Chorus Augur

    funny thing though...back when this was live, ignoring TLP, haste didn't have a stacking cap per se, and adding a bard to a group in that era could create machine gunners out of everyone. It was a lot of fun, even if exhausting for the bard since melody didn't exist back then :p

    Due to that, even though they stacked, a lot of bards didn't know because everything stacked in that expansion for the first 1/3 to 1/2 of it, maybe longer. Been a while so the memory is leaky. Of course, being a bard in those days was extra rough, because every other patch would break us and we'd be down for the count for another couple weeks until the fix was in.