No the point is bards should be the most powerful increase for others in the group... yet we are not anymore. Take away a bard from the group will decrease other classes dps less than taking away other classes from the group, at least for melee not 100% sure on casters because i have not looked into that much. Outside of raids we are still good pullers etc but so often group content today doesn't need pulling and tanks will just tank dozen mobs at one time.
I will preface my responses by saying I play on a TLP that has unlocked as far as Rain of Fear. Flat out lie. Nobody else buffs their group with Bard songs the last time I checked, and most other abilities are designed to stack with Bard songs retaining their value. There were ALWAYS multiple pulling classes, Monks, Shadowknights & Necromancers were also pullers due to FD since those spells went in & Enchanters were always capable of pulling by virtue of their CC abilities - so this comment is meaningless. What special power? singing? you still have that special power, nobody else does. Bards get an Aura the same as some melee did if you want to be envious check out the Enchanter which has more Auras than any other class, of the Melees who got an aura those haven't been updated since Prophecy of Ro while your Aura has several updates. Classes besides Bard had buffs since the game was launched & that's justification for you? That's entirely laughable. So you want Bard DPS buffed because for "reasons" even though all of the reasons above are basically junk or lies? Yeah that seems legit.... Bards bring more ADPS to the table than any other class but you want to be doing what, pure Melee dps as a support class? You're trippin' balls. This sounds like you saw one or two parses where other Bard's got good numbers but you sucked, have you done an average over multiple parses & multiple mobs, ever heard the term sample size? Statistically any one parse is meaningless, you need dozens to get any clue on where dps averages out at because there are a massive number of things that can affect a good or bad parse. On a more serious note though, where do you actually think Bards should be "on average" compared to dedicated DPS classes?
I am not going to go post 50 parses but this isn't the first time I have seen it. I am someone who always watches parses for every fight and this all started due to the major randomness I started noticing from my own dps. After looking into it and doing some testing I found that bards don't really add that much dps to the group compared to others. It is also worst than you are thinking.
I honestly do not think Bards are suffering anywhere near as badly as you are making them out to be. The Bards in my own guild are putting out pretty solid DPS & definitely boost groups more than any other class does, perhaps not during a few short term bursts but on average by a long way.
Bards are in a great state. Next to plate tanks they're one of the most valuable members of a group and they are the most desired class in raids.
I am very well situated from a tank perspective for the new expansion. Many are not. The simplest thing you can do to make it seem like you are "one level greater (from group to raid gear, etc)" is group with or box a bard. It might be what gets you through the tougher parts of leveling 111 to 115 in the group expansion if you feel your group gear from EOK, ROS, TBL is lacking.
this entire post does not provide enough info as to how the OP is saying bards are in such a bad place. of course, i would love to see bards' personal dps to go up, but as far as adps goes, bards win all day. major differences you can see in bards' personal dps can be attributed to group make up. being in a melee group (sham, bard, zerk, monk, bst rng/rog) will push your number far better compared to a caster group or tank group. caster adps just does benefit a bard but not to the same level due to bards main source of damage is from melee damage you also stated that the bards that aren't seen in this parse are ones that are "bad dps" but play songs and are about even dps with the caster group bards.... they need to be moved, put good dps bard (given they know what they are doing ADPS wise) in those groups. also, if you want to really see how well bard adps compares... ask any melee dps group if they are willing to give up there bard for an extra bst or zerk or any other melee class (especially your top dpsers)... due to real life scenarios, we dont always have a bard for all the dps groups, and when we are short... everyone fights over who gets the bard.
DPS want a bard so their parse goes higher. The question is if a group with a bard does more/less/same DPS than that exact same group that replaces the bard with another melee DPS class, taking into account bard personal DPS, bard group ADPS, and the increased synergy/ADPS that the bard replacement brings to the group. I do not know if that question has ever been answered legitimately...
plus 1 to Cicelee. I will take a wild guess and say the data above from how i read it.. alot of missing information. I like see how often the bards in question are nuking with synergy insult. case in point.. is the other bard beats me regularly on parse; he is a solid top 10, 6 or 7 normally im normally in 12 to 15 range. But my combine affect on dps is larger than his.. if i dont have 5 in top 10.. im manic to study data and figure out why? where as the top personal dps bard only get 2 or 3. He is 100% in shaman bst meele setup.. and im bastard that moves around based on need. End result is both do well.. he is much quicker than too meele than I am.. and crazy about adjustments to my settings.. I wish i was better at being quicker.. but i live my bard live in 92% rule.. anything above 92% peak is reckless and i die and offer zero to others.. and im all about others.. live and make other better; reckless play and hurt others.. min max that.. and i will be a better bard. Cliff nukes.. review all data and see how often that benefit synergy is going off from bards and others.. compounding the group synergies are very important. Yes others can help too its not a bard only thing.. synergy>>Alliance>>meele dps All are important to the bard.. both himself and his teammates. We are very solid.. and look great in Yoga pants.
well, i understand you look at where the dps in your group each event compare over all... but you can't only look at that... did anyone in your group die vs other groups? are they using there burns at optimal times (during bard/sham epic/spires, etc)? are they using the right burns? is this a straight boss burn event or rotating through adds? if adds, how quick do they react on target swaps? many things come into play and it's different for each event. same goes for your personal dps too tho. when/how you are using your burns... do you have other rolls that take away from dpsing to mez/charm/etc? (example: we use bards to do the crystal clicks in the prince ralafin raid, or during EoK bards do the torch clicks for prince event) now, are you saying that you and this other bard are in the top 10 for dps/damage overall on an event? if so im imagining you have some dps seriously slacking on their own dps. im not saying bards are terrible dps.. but you shouldn't really be above that many pure dps classes.
yes we could improve on dps as a roster.. example 7 ranger with same or similar gear; everyone is max AA.. both bards beat 5 of 7 ranger 90% of the time.. this should not be true but its assumed that parser is NOT recording the range dps correctly. Yes we cure charm and mez is secondary roles as needed We can only suggest to them when its ideal to burn and stack everything.. As in past if I get too pushie on coaching up.. the immature take it as a personal attack and we get nowhere fast. the Goal is improve and win.. DPS helps this and dont care where it comes from.. 200k is 200k.. and more dps shorten the event and helps get wins. Sometimes i question why that is not a tat on left arm. DPS mora lets win. And yes he is a reg in top ten for total damage; the longer the event the more i drop, im only good for about 17 mins resource game style that i use.. if runs longer im out of mana (doing everything i can do to recovery it) As far as people living? i have days i dont die once and have events were i get druid skill 6 and die multi times reguardless of glyph/disc/shield of notes.. etc. 100% agree the roster needs more depth in dps form 20 to whatever shows up.. its really the 2 bard groups and everyone else the drop off is that much; the line in sand is clear with us. Why I think a lack of standard goal and old people not wanting to get coached up. I like to watch mana bars, as i like think the drop in mana is often a sign of cast attempts.. if got mana 90% plus..you not casting often enough. IF lower than 20% without a drain or death.. i need to support my dpser better, that is how i look at this as far as mana. This assume the roster is similar geared and people read strat guideline posted. Huge theory based undstanding yes, As there so much varable information needed to hit bingo its this or that. imho Strat rule 1.. ABC always be casting
Kinda off topic but it looks like we got a big increase in DOT damage. I am not sure if anyone ever uses them I can't say that i have in a long time.
i toyed around with bard dots some on beta and i will say they are doing way more damage than before. will have to do some more testing(melody work) in group/raid scenario and see where the numbers are. and if worth taking up the limited debuff slots mobs have.. last time i used our dots was during RoS T2.2 to help with bane damage on skull/blob traps. aside from that, i near never use.
Let's say that I am in agreement that bards should be the most powerful increase, of any class in the game, to the other members of the party. I believe I understand your position, and while my experience does not reflect what you are saying, I am intrigued in the data that you have that supports what you are saying. Without data it boils down to little more than an assertion liberally sprinkled with hyperbole all housed in a clickbaity title.
I am to lazy to go get the logs but i found in alot of groups during ToV grinding that I can increase the group dps output more by just singing dots in place of other group buff songs. I guess it all depends on how good the other people in your group is but a big problem is you have to pick caster or melee songs to sing and if you don't have just one type of dps in your group it is better to just do dots and make more dps.
This is a total click bait thread in my opinion. Adding my boxed bard to the group with my warrior using just an aura and the couple best songs will single handedly replace an entire mediocre dps player. Adding a real bard to any competent group is exponentially better. There is a reason why if you look at all those "ideal" raid make up threads, they all basically want a bard for at a minimum in every dps group, and many would say all the tank groups too. You can make an argument that specific bard songs and abilities can use tweaks and the merits of using group songs over personal nukes or dots. But bards are hands down the best amplifying class out there. A crappy group can be bad enough that focusing on personal dps may yield a better result. In those same groups getting any of the rest of the group to use burns once every 5 to 15 minutes would have a bigger impact. Them sucking and not coordinating burns does not make the bard class pointless. As a side note, you should never want to make your class so dependent on one specific thing or role that it loses its appeal when the inevitable nerf bat swings. Every class needs some functional level of personal dps and every pure class needs enough tricks to bring fun to the table.
i too am looking forward to these new dots that look or appear to ramped up x3.. 1541 to near 4400 ish range on fire dot. the base value pre crit aa focus lines add in post focus song.. aria.. omg beat that drum beat that drum. Tov synergy proc looks to be 90k at 115 once pop the 200 AA for than range.. limited to 1 per tick.. so mayber there is some min max to adjust to that if second proc under 6 sec fails to proc.. eck i need test it.. Feels like a return to the death bard.. sometimes i group with new people and ramp up the dps.. and dps die.. its a side affect at time.. the tank is not used to seeing that dps agro gain.. half smile half giggle.. pain is fun.
As to bard dots in TOV. 1. To get the increase you have to be using the Dots from TOV older dots do not get the same damage increase 2. I do have to dig deeper into all what is affecting the dots. 3. a. Normal damage per tic. around 110k b. Normal Crit 390k to 457k c. Have seen crits as high as 980k Now I am level 114 right now and have not maxed all my AA's yet obviously. Seems that Fierce Eye and Epic Click seem to help with the higher level crits. When rolling 3 dots and burning on a named in a group I have been around 550k DPS on parse. The down side, remember there are 2 parts to the dot, first the damage second the Debuff. YOU WILL CLIMB on agro if all the dots start to crit all at once. Hover on fade.
