Bard DPS on TLPs?

I heard that bards dots were some real good dps. Are those dots affected by Instruments?
I play on Bristlebane and I'm trying to understand crazy TLP Bard DPS.
Thanks in advance!

Instruments do indeed increase the damage of bard DoTs, but a bard's DPS is mostly from the benefits they give true DPS classes from their songs. Bard don't really get to shine as a class that does respectable direct DPS until TSS or TBS when their Boastful Bellow AA gets silly. Then in TBS when you get Jonthan's Mightful Caretaker combined with Stormblade and crit bonuses... Look out!

Bard dps in early EQ is really based on AE damage. As a bard I once topped a POT parse, whatever the first lady is, but only because we didn't CC and just pile and burn adds.

If it's a single mob you're fighting you basically need to have a fast fight and blow your mana on dirge, with little nuances, but that's the gist.

Their dots are severely underrated resist debuffs however.

There is a guy on selo that ive seen running around with two bards in tow for group content. No clue what would be his reason. Probably is a hacker as he used to run automation in baz before the changes. "When in doubt, it's a hacker."

I forgot to mention this. If the raid is calling for more [insert resist type here] Debuffs, toss in a drum and add the appropriate DoT. The bard hanging out with the clerics in early expansions should be doing this anyway, as he doesn't have any melee to babysit.

Bellow.... 'nuff said. but don't refresh it.. let it wear off for the big numbers!

Speaking from the perspective of Mangler:

-In the base game and first few expansions, dots were definitely a good source of dps if you were willing to instrument swap. I would do pretty competitive dos vs Vulaak, for example, since it had crap resists and was a long fight so most disciplines wouldn't give people a massive edge. I don't know if it really felt insane, per say, but being at all competitive with damage while also providing resists, mana song, and/or debuffs (often through the dots themselves) feels pretty good.

-Group ldons is where I really noticed how insane as damage can be, as aeing a ton of mobs was a great way to clear them quickly. When you are aeing down 10-20+ mobs at a time, you can easily hit 600-800 overall dps, which in era is pretty nuts for sustained dps. The only disappointment in raids is bard ae dots don't stack with each other.

-Kind of cheating, but if you get to count charm pet damage, bards can do some insane dps sometimes like any other charm class.

-By the time you hit PoP and into GoD and Omens, Denon"s Desperate Dirge can definitely pump out some solid DPS in shorter fights if you spam it. Once you hit a 10k+ Mana pool you can keep it going for almost a minute or so (I usually keep overhaste up when dirging so it takes a little longer). Of course, you can't do it every fight, but it's a fun way to sneak into the dps charts. It's really more useful for a dps race or when novaing a mini boss like if you're doing Anguish aug runs with a group. And it can hit up to 4 targets so there are times you can take advantage of that and really help clear a lot of trash. And with a steady supply of mod rods and maxed out Mana regen from items and aas, you can usually go all out several times a raid if you feel like it.

So sure, bard dps in these eras is not reliably insane and certainly not a focus of the class, but in specialized circumstances it can be pretty impressive and often not at the expense of continuing to support the party overall. For example, when aeing in a group, you can spam Mana song clicky, provide overhaste/spell focus, provide 60% regular haste + attack (through 15 minute clicky) slow all the mobs, and be hitting them with 4 dots for top dps all at the same time.

Bards DPS comes with TSS, with Boastful Bellow. Other then that, they don't, they bring adps. And their massive AE song was nerfed to the ground (completely useless now).

That ae song, dirge, is incredibly far from useless... I was still parsing at the top for vt trash clears before that line got broke op. Its a monster of a nuke for its era. Your crits are silly strong. Bards also really specialize in burns like Coirnav where the ae portion isn't even really a factor.

I'm positive that Chords of Dissonance, the lvl 2 PBAE has no debuff component and will stack for multiple bards. I recall at one time an all bard guild on FV that would use it to great effect on raids

If a bard is in the top 10 before TSS, then the folks playing your dps classes are terrible. During and a bit after TSS, very different story.

Totally depends on the fight. But I will say bards are probably the most misunderstood class in eq, especially early on

Ya. On a single fight in pop era, a bard can be in the top of charts if they're burning Mana. Dirge does 2666 dmg with maxed songs/aa (shei cloak). If you've got 9k-ish Mana and a modrod you can prolly dirge 11 or 12 times on a given fight. If you land a 8k crit, watch out.

Bard DPS purely meleeing is about 100-120 depending on weapons/augs. Comparatively, a ranger might be around 350, monks/rogs may be around 370-400 depending. So if you're a bard on a fight and burn your Mana and add in 1-2 dot songs , you can easily get to 300-400 dps on a single fight in a raid. Obviously you can only do that on a given raid maybe twice, but bards CAN do quite a bit of damage if they want.

Are you talking about Dirge or the Vainglorious Shout AA being nerfed?

Edit: Bards also get a huge ADPS bump much later on with the Insult line of spells and an AA focus that goes with that line.

Yeah, I definitely occasionally make top 10 on parse on Mangler, and I have no reason to believe the dps in my guild is terrible, as plenty of them are veteran players with bis weapons. I have 13K mana and so can unload 18+ dirges. Combined with my own Overhaste song (the only one I keep running when going all out dps), 2.0 clicky, Dance of Blade for double attack, my own bis weapons + augs, and any other buffs or clickies from my group, that's a lot of dps if the fight doesn't drag on too long. Now, there are plenty of fights where it's not feasible or advisable to all out dps like that (as opposed to providing more support), but for short bursts on the rights mobs, I can absolutely make top 10 on parses.

Of course, there are plenty of times I go all out and still finish, like 13th (or worse) and of course plenty of times when for a variety of reasons I can't/don't go all out and don't even finish top 20. There's a lot of variability.

I occasionally even top the parse, though it's pretty rare. About a month ago in Tackvi (out of era, but we still run it as we raid 4 times a week), I was top on parse on Tunat'Muram if you count the adds he spawns because my dirge spamming hit the boss and his adds at the same time adding up to some pretty insane dps.

So this is not to say Bards are some master DPS class, but merely they are capable of some pretty impressive burst dps in the right situations almost entirely on the back of Denon's Desperate Dirge combined with our ability to melee at the same time. And more generally, Bard sustained dps on TLPs just isn't the show it used to be in era when these expansions first came out.

But with all that said, I am kind of excited for TSS now.