Bans, Boxers, 3rd party programs, and EQ

It goes in line with the same reasoning that paraplegic athletes with prosthetics designed for running are not allowed in the Olympics. The prosthetics are too efficient and give the paraplegic an unfair advantage, no matter how good you are. Gamparse and EQparser give data after the play, not during. Gina gives the same function as an in game system gives, with more options that don't effect game play.

If you want to get picky Windows is a 3rd party program but then again they have listed what you can and can't do. They have also said time and time again things like parsing logs isn't cheating yet people keep trying to use that as an example of things that might get you banned.

Ahh, but they have listed some things that they look for (modifying the client or your computer to avoid cheat detection), so they have already opened that door.

Yeah, they can never say a program is okay or not because programs can do many things and players can make them do many different things, some of which are okay or not. And if someone is a moderately experienced Windows sysadmin, they can pretty easily write their own 3rd party programs with the Windows powershell scripting language . It's relatively trivial to write a powershell program that reads log files and sends keystrokes and mouse clicks the EQ window. A Windows sysadmin can macro a lot of stuff without too much trouble. EQ needs to have categories of actions which they define as cheating or not rather than specific programs certified as okay or not.

I feel they would be better off having a generic policy like "It is cheating use a non-EQ method to cause an EQ client to take action." This would mean things like I S B would not be allowed, but I think that's better for the game. I would rather that the EQ game itself address the boxing shortcomings that cause people to seek out external solutions. For example, I think it's better that EQ itself have a way to send a command to another EQ client rather than players having to find their own 3rd party solution. It's pretty clear that boxing is a permanent part of EQ life at this point. Might as well make the client more conducive to that way of playing.

Not true. GamParse and EQParser give real time DPS overlays if set up. While this in itself is not considered cheating, it could be under their broad brush statement if they choose for it to be..
As for your other point, I should give up something I enjoy just because you feel I have an unfair advantage over you? DPG doesn't make a game specifically for people with impairments.

I never argued that using parsers would get you banned, I am merely stating that using their broad-brushed statement they could at anytime deem that it could be cause for a suspend/ban.

And that has never been the case.

It is clear what kinds of software they are targeting.

You are trying to obfuscate, equivocate, conflate, and convolute. This is the modus operandi for establishing the "problem" with the agenda to "change the rules" in favor of the cheaters.

On the subject of gray scales:
There is always gray scale, however when something is 99% black on the gray scale arguing that "its technically a gray area" is dishonest.

Gamparse's and EQparser's DPS overlays give up-to-date statistics from past up to present data. You still receive that data in game, whether you choose to filter it out or not. The real benefit from these parsing programs are the plethora of other statistics you gain to obtain knowledge for future play. This knowledge can be passed to players who don't use programs, and thus knowledge (or skill) is not considered as an unfair advantage.

Please take note of what people are trying to convey to you. I can only imagine that your situation makes gaming, a hobby you enjoy, difficult. But those who have argued against you see this more as a fairness debate.

You either just don't get it or are trying very hard to justify Mpoo. Those overlays are read from the log file, a legal function and since the overlay is actually on your monitor and not in EQ at all that's also legal and not going to get you suspended.

Agree. That is why AFK playing, should be the reason for a suspension, not cheating. Playing with a set of 'smart merc's which are fairly close to playing with a full group, playing nice, making room for real players when asked, helping with quests and playing nice is what is being punished along with those AFK auto pulling groups. The first are people who can save the game and increase profits, suspending or banning the 2nd type is justified. The problem is they automated the detection of the automation and are now tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

A few things I never get with all this.

1. if they can tell x person is using some software they don't allow how come they don't always nail all the accounts. for example if someone is 6 boxing sometime its all 6 that get hit some times its only 1 or 2 of the accounts.

2. also why just hit a small % of the people and not everyone at the same time. I know people who over the last 5 wave of smack sometimes they didn't get hit others it was their full crew and other it was just part of their crew.

I have never been suspended or banned in 21+ years of playing EQ. I think I am finding the concept quite easy because I use common sense and only use third party programs that EQ has deemed acceptable.

It is those individuals who go out and use third party programs that use automation, get caught and then want to complain about gray areas and good vs evil... those players IMHO are not understanding the concept. But to each their own. The black and white answer has already been posted by red names on these forums, you can argue and gray area all you want. I will continue to use common sense and not get banned. I cannot say the same for some others.

I think the answer is simple... create a server where whatever those programs are, are OK.

Then, if there are certain accounts that repeatedly cheating and have reached a point of being flat out banned for life... instead of banning them, auto-transfer them to the 'cheat' server where they can keep on playing, but ban them from all other servers.

Give the cheaters ways to improve the programs in a risk free environment before the cheats are unleashed on the rest of the servers?

I just came back to EQ after a long break and I'm just tired of the stress of boxing. It's too much back and forth and clicking windows etc.. If I could use a program, that help automate my toons a little, I would probably keep playing, but I let all my 7 accounts lapse now. They need to make it so you can use your alts as mercs or something. Give you a reason to level up other toons and give them more membership subs(make it gold only).

I'm totally against afk automated playing 100%. But I would love some automation software that made boxing fun and eaiser. The boxing software has been around for decades in EQ, so people saying the future of EQ is in jeopardy, because of that, are wrong. Get rid of the people abusing it and work with it, to make it a fun add on.

The ignorance of this statement is staggering. I can't imagine anyone listens to your drivel.

Everquest runs inside Windows. You have to start Windows before you start the game.

Windows is always the FIRST PARTY, there is no EQ without Windows.
EQ is always the SECOND PARTY. It is run after, and inside Windows.

Anything else is THIRD PARTY.

Please get that straight to avoid sounding like you don't even understand how software works.

You may be right about that. Hmpf.

Yes, it is clear now what they are targeting. And where have you seen me call for a change in the rules? You are trying to obfuscate, equivocate, conflate, and convolute anything that I have said.

What I have advocated for is a change in the game (other threads) and others have (in this and the other "lets ban them all" thread). Change the game enough to where boxing is no longer needed. Increase the usefulness of mercs. Enhance the solo experience, even if that experience doesn't reward as well as group/raid play.

For instance, I play LotRO from time to time (limited because playing a warden wreaks havoc on my hands). You can solo any class up from 1-140 in solo content. The gear isn't as good, but it is good enough to get you through the content. If you want better gear, you can group (3-6 mans). If you the best gear, you can raid (12+ mans). But the point of it is that no matter which route you choose, you are still able to play the game to max level.

Because of the grouping, or lack thereof, in EQ, it makes people 1) quit, or 2) roll box teams. Is boxing possible without ISB or other unnamed 3rd party software? Yes, but only with those that have the focus, physical and mental capability, and time to do so.