Ban players from this "The Veterans' Lounge" ..

You can't, but you can continually improve on it rather than trying to play cat & mouse with current 3rd party software or any new one that comes along.

Heck, even training can be detected on the server and flagged for CS review without even requiring someone to report it, though part of the process should require someone reporting it for CS to be looped in. But CS could even then review prior detected incidents that weren't reported to determine bad behavior. Being able to use behavior as evidence is something no client-side detection is going to help you out with (hackers would simply block those packets reporting the behavior from even being sent).

Yes, it can. Cheating is bad behavior. Behavior can be determined on the server regardless of what software is running on the client. Heck, bad behavior can be detected even with no 3rd party software running (see my training example above).

Again, I never said it couldn't be detected, just that a server side detection isn't going to catch every cheat.

And I will still disagree that the server side detection can catch every cheat. There are some that will not be detectable by server side checks.

Sure you can work on improving it but you will still miss out on cheats if that is all you are doing to try and catch them. There is a reason why a lot of games rely on cheat detection software on the users machines.

They can catch the "dumb" hackers with an additional layer on the client side, but that client side will do nothing against a serious hacker. They literally don't even need to worry about analyzing every little thing the cheat detection is trying to detect. Per above, just analyze the network data and block any cheat reporting to the server from happening or have it simply report "all good".

I've said this before. Rule #1: Never trust the client. That's also appropriate when it comes to cheat detection.

We'll have to agree to disagree with this one. All behavior is an action. All actions can be analyzed for matchable bad behavior. The "bad behavior" list is what you continue to build on to create a mature solution.

Is this going to be another one of those things where you double/triple down on a topic you know very little about and then when multiple people come and tell you that you're wrong you just say that you never heard about it is all?

With logging and heuristic analysis they can catch any current public cheat that is going on right now. I didn't even put quotes around cheat. Every single thing is pretty easily detectable within the realm of their limitations on scanning for software. They can also run things like EAC if they so desire (if you read the roadmap you will see they might do this) and get super invasive and do even more to stop as much as possible. You are correct that there might be that one genius who's made it their life goal to cheat at EQ1 and even after they do everything they can and there isn't a single public cheater out there this one person is getting away with anything they want to. Yeah that's theoretically possible but improbable down to rounding errors.

Historically they haven't put any measurable amount of effort into stopping anything that isn't blatantly game breaking like ghost killing or brews. Everything else was watched and monitored and mitigated. The former leader was very open to hearing what capabilities there were out there and work with everyone to find a happy medium. Absor and JChan are adamantly on a holy crusade. More power to them that is their stance and it looks like they are sticking to it. The amount of suspensions to give people out there a second chance in their decision making is a good option. This IS a change though in the stance of the company. That's going to create waves when you've pretty much allowed a bunch of things to happen for 22 years as long as they didn't get carried away.

You are correct yet plenty of other games sure seem to depend on it for cheat detection.

They can catch any current public cheat? Seems strange as we get so many complaints about them not catching cheaters and doing nothing about it. Seems to me if they could do it that easily they could hit everyone that cheated with a suspension/ban wave

And yet even in those other games you still hear about cheaters all the time. People are still cheating. The cheaters just aren't making their methods public.

Again, we're looping back to rules versus policies. Their policy in the past was to let most stuff slide unless it was egregious enough to disrupt the whole game, and even in those cases they still let it slide (monopolizing siren's grotto as an example). Also, creating and maturing cheat detection takes time. We don't know how long they've been working on the current cheat detection solution. You also don't ban every same-type cheater at the same time. You slowly ban them so that the cheaters can't figure out a pattern to what is being flagged as cheating and try to mitigate it. Cat & mouse, as I said before.

once again you do not tell it like it was, i said 8 pages of mage pet spells

Like someone said earlier: it is impossible to trust hearsay or anecdotal reports on the internet. This goes for the other side also. The cheaters are telling lies as are the players reporting them

And one more note - Everquest was on life support for a period of time. Without the income of the boxers (and especially the big boxers) the game may not have stayed afloat. That's likely an unfortunate situation they were forced to accept for a long time. The fresh investment in the game from the recent acquisition is likely why we're seeing action being taken now.

Why do you keep going on and on about this and refuse to list spell names?

Because you are not a DBG employee and while asking more questions to help a fellow player and offering suggestions to resolve their issue is fine, the constant pressure you put on him was not right.

Careful now, logic has no place on these forums..

Attempting to get information that would help solve the problem is wrong? But that really isn't the issue here the fact that they felt the need to drag this into a completely unrelated thread and keep ranting about it. They also felt the need to keep ranting about me asking a simple question of what spells they tried to delete but apparently they didn't want any help or to give the devs any information that would be needed to reproduce any issues they had.

And I never said they are perfect, just that there is no single cheat detection mechanic that will catch all cheats.

Correct there is misinformation on all sides but I think it is safe to say that they can't catch all the various 3rd party cheats that are being used.

My question is what do they consider a 3 P C,, 'Cause they have banned two people that live in the same house that play together at the same time.. is GINA a 3 P C ?