Balancing Enchanter PB Area Effect Stuns

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Beyonka, May 21, 2019.

  1. Captain Video Augur


    50x faster? 1Mx faster? Hyperbole to the max, IMHO you completely undermine your own argument that way.

    Bard AE swarm kiting was nerfed because it caused big problems at higher levels. When there is a design conflict between the classic game and the modern game, the modern game always wins. Bards still have charm-based swarm kiting at lower levels, and in certain zones (see: roaming trees) it can be hugely effective. Enchanter PBAE isn't any more potent than that by comparison.

    Classic EQ is a 20-year-old design which, by its very nature, threw a bunch of mechanics together without fully recognizing how they might be abused in combination. It was, is, and always will be somewhat imbalanced. In-era, re-balancing was enacted through various mechanical changes over the course of the next several (semi-annual) expansions. As others have posted, balancing overall gets a lot better post-PoP. If you want to play the Classic game, it comes with its warts, you have to accept that. If class balance is that critical to you, consider rolling on a post-PoP server, there are several to choose from.
  2. Febb Augur

    They aren't going to change the design of the early game. If you can't hack being in the open world then maybe you should play another game. This is why group instancing was worked into later expansions where the game is better designed. Classic EQ is a train wreck.
    Nessirfiti likes this.
  3. Nessirfiti Augur

    How about this. I think Bobbybick said it best:
  4. a_librarian Augur

    linking the first four PBAE stuns to a shared recast is the perfect solution.
  5. Thalliius Augur

    50x faster isnt really hyperbole, they can kill 75+ mobs per pull

    I've killed 93 mobs with my bard using Denons Desperate Dirge, you could kill that many way back when you could AE Swarm kite, until they nerfed it

    The core point still stands perfectly on its own, its way faster than any other class can do things and there are no comparisons or way for others to even come close to matching that kind of progression speed
  6. Nessirfiti Augur

    You know what I hate? I hate that certain classes can anger a mob so much that it doesn't attack the people doing the most damage to it. I demand we remove taunt and aggro generating abilities entirely.

    Oh, and healers. I hate the fact that certain classes can just undo damage, how unfair is that?! my rogue can't heal. That's totally unfair.

    Also, I hate DPS classes, My cleric can't do half the DPS my Rogue can do. we need to remove DPS classes.
  7. Thalliius Augur

    what a ridiculous argument

    Enchanters can literally fill EVERY ROLE in a group except for Healer, and do it better than most of the core classes that are specialists in those roles

    Acting like all an enchanter does is AOE Stun as the foundation of their class is absolutely absurd
  8. Nessirfiti Augur

    The argument is as ridiculous as your demand for AoE stuns and AoEs in general to be nerfed. "Boo hoo a specific setup can do things better than I can."

    Enchanters are jacks of all trades In eras before OoW, and Arguably GoD. And then they become buff bots, save for a few encounters where AoE stuns and mezzing are useful.

    You ask for nerfs that would change things in eras beyond the very small and very dull part of the game you play. Yes, people are technically asking for only the first four AE stuns to be nerfed but I don't really trust the devs to stop at just that. There are people asking for blanket nerfs to AE spells in general.

    Just because for 6 months AoE groups bother you doesn't mean the rest of the game needs to be changed to make you feel better.

    Like Bobbybick said. The best nerf to Enchanter AoE stuns is to play past PoP.
  9. Fizon Elder

    Honestly what's rediculous is you whining on the internet about something's that's been around for 20 years and is highly situational especially with all the work arounds you have.

    Also I would leave a group who told me the enchanter was mc tanking. They do dmg and cc. Yes it's really strong but who cares play what you want.
  10. Machentoo Augur


    This really isn't true. GoD raids are mostly "pointy end goes here." So are OoW, DoDh, PoR. TSS becomes slightly more challenging, but only very slightly in today's game. It really isn't until Underfoot before any really difficult challenge appears.
  11. Machentoo Augur


    A dedicated enchanter chain casting rune is a better "healer" than one more cleric in a cheal chain. Yes, they can do that role too.
  12. Nessirfiti Augur

    I'd say TSS is when it starts getting less pointy end-ish, but Even Ikkinz has more thought required than anything in PoP or earlier.
  13. Meredyth Elder

    I think this perception is incorrect and is based on the fact that generally most of us know the strategies to the point where the fights seem trivial. However I don’t consider Dance Dance Revolution raiding to somehow improve the challenge of raiding it is just a different kind of strat that needs to be executed where one afk person missing an emote can often wipe a raid. What is Dance Dance Revolution raiding? Duck! Ok now run to the right! Run to the left! Click your clicky! Now Do-si-do your partner!

    Zun Muram Tkarysh Zyk comes to mind, for raids that are more then just pointy end here - among other raids. Even Nagafen once required a strat and wasn’t just a Zerg fest. Ever done Naggy with a paladin and a few other toons? My point is that as a raid leader if I have multiple strats to pick from and I have to find the one that best fits my current raid force and then give instructions on how to execute that strat, then it is more than ‘pointy end here’
  14. Beyonka New Member

    You also forget that during Luclin, PoP, LDON it is hard for groups to even find an enchanter as most all have the LFG note: Deep or POI AE only pls. I agree for the development team the easiest solution would be for all pbae stuns to share the same timer. Or put a level limit like I had originally suggested.
  15. Meredyth Elder

    You don’t need an enchanter to have a successful group. This isn’t an issue that warrants any kind of change.
  16. Beyonka New Member

    I have seen groups upon groups begging for an enchanter and all the ones LFG will only be in an AE group. Why would an enchanter want to do any other group when they can get MASSIVE amounts of experience every 15 minutes with the ease of pushing 3 keys.
  17. Meredyth Elder

    It doesn’t matter how many groups WANT an enchanter. There is no welfare program to ensure that groups get an enchanter. An enchanter is not necessary for ANY xp camp in this game ever. There are other group formats that can work.

    Here’s another counterpoint: if you nerf enchanters to the point that nobody wants to play one anymore, you still won’t have one for your group.
  18. yerm Augur

    Oh, so it's not ae stuns. It's enchanters. You hate that they are op in general.

    Why don't you just play one?
  19. Beyonka New Member

    Enchanters offer groups clarity, some of the highest DPS in game through PoP, CC, rune tanking and the list goes on. People will still want to play an enchanter even though the issue of having 4 PBAE stuns is addressed.
  20. Dythan Augur

    If you play long enough, we all become the villain.

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