Auto-Granting AAs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Evil.Iguana, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. Arakash Journeyman

    Please consider making this an opt out option for gold members. Not all EQ players are the instant gratification types. Some of us like to earn things the old-fashioned way and don't mind spending time playing the game.
    Better yet I think you should implement an option where folks can buy maxed out characters; max exp. max AA, access to all armor types etc. That way folks who come on the boards every month or so asking to make the game easier can simply pay a few bucks, kill the latest mob boss and then go away again until the next expansion. Sort of like a first person shooter for them and an immersive hobby for the rest of us. It's a win-win situation!
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Tegila like this.
  2. Slasher Augur

    It should be class based the problem is you can't define a number that would be fair to each class. Tanks NEED defensive AAs to even think about tanking anything SOD + and dps needs the dps AAs.

    People are guessing a high number because whats the point of auto granting a few hundred AAs say you grant 500 AAs by the time they're 90. They still cant contribute much why ? because you're picking the AAs they get not them and every class is useless without 1k-1500 and if you auto pick them they're still useless if you pick them right 1k-1500 AAs can make you useful unless you're a tank.

    If you want to do this right you need to get input from members of each class on how best to spend the AAs you're auto granting get people who play the class to help you.
  3. Oranges Augur

    A lot of classes need 5000 AA to function optimally on a raid. A bard is useful at 3000 AA, a ranger is useless and a dead weight taking up a spot at 3000 AA and certainly needs minimum 5000 AA to contribute in a meaningful way. This was the case at lvl 95, I can only imagine this is more so at lvl 100.

    I think the only classes that can function well under 5000 AA would be bard and cleric, because their songs / spells provide a lot of the character's power, but all other classes I can think of need at the least 5000 AA to function properly nowadays.
  4. Narye Augur

    But again, most people gain substantial AA's outside the Guild Lobby :p
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    We'll see what Elidroth and the dev team intend when it's been done.

    I originally opposed massive AA giveaways when this was first announced, however Elidroth clarified his intentions at the time - core AA's. He clarifies again -

    It doesn't appear that a Getcha FREE RAID READY functions optimally on raids for 0 SC character is in the cards.
  6. Ronak Augur

    I've done that on my warrior alt too.
    Sinestra likes this.
  7. Nedrom Augur

    I don't agree with this, AA should not be auto-granted.
  8. Abazzagorath Augur

    This is kind of my point. The only specific aa you ever mentioned was CA/CS. Its also aa that you said in the past you wanted to "end" an upgrades. Which makes sense, its a treadmill ability, you add more ranks, then increase mob dps output and strikethrough to compensate (whether directly or indirectly with tuning). So getting rid of it (and getting rid of heroic increases which you basically are starting to look like you are doing) means balancing content each expansion or "tiered content release" is easier to do.

    But you have people thinking you're going to give them thousands upon thousands of aa, which was a silly idea to begin with. You said no class aa at one point also. So what are you going to grant? Things like the stat aa? Resist cap? Regen? Buff slots? Bind wound?

    The kind of stuff that it sounds like you're looking at is just mostly filler anyway other than a couple of them. Its just junk tossed in to give people something to do, pad aa totals for releases, and has little impact on power. Its going to make little difference except to slightly lower the achievement aa levels available and give people that play the most even less to do.

    So why not do something that has a greater impact on people actually being able to function aa-wise?

    Give CA/CS innately and make the last ranks we have the last we ever see of it.

    Then, autogrant a certain number of aa per level and let people spend them on what they want and need.

    Level 51-60, 10 aa per level (100 aa total)
    level 61-70, 15 aa per level (150 aa total)
    level 71-80, 20 aa per level (200 aa total)
    level 81-90, 20 aa per level (200 aa total)

    And stop it there. That's 650 aa + the hundreds from CA/CS given away, but given away in a useful way that comes as part of an accomplishment that's visible. I have helped people that have returned to the game, and the aa needed to max all the stat aa are not their concern. They get whatever is "needed" then whatever is "valuable" for their class, then unless they are OCD, they stop caring and get aa as they go and not worry about it. Which for most people is the 5000-6000 range it seems at level 100.

    On top of that, extend the aa curve out to 5000 or 6000 and call it a day. I think this is a much better thing for the game then just removing 1000-2000 mostly worthless aa from the window so some people feel better about it for an expansion or two.
  9. Langya Augur

    Guess you are not up on current events, Elidroth since many people who play EQ are completely convinced they know more about EQ and can do a much better job of developing the game than you all can. Mostly because you listen to these people and actually allow them to have their way so now what you and the devs do is a whole bunch of barn door repair after the horses are long gone. If there is any advice to give, than take control of your game and do what you think is going to work. If people don't like it, well, tough S. They can go elsewhere, but chances are they won't.
  10. FcsevenXIII Augur


    I ask that you reconsider. This would be the very last straw for me. You guys are making such drastic changes (to make this easier as well as give into those with their hands outstretched) the game is becoming unrecognizable. Maybe losing a 12 year vet and a longtime EQ supporter means little, but after this change I'm gone for good. No looking back, no regrets. Those that force these changes can have the game. The golden days are long gone anyway.
  11. Celeris New Member

    Here are my thoughts on this.

    Something needs to be done. I'm a returning player, at the time I left, I was max level and 90% done with the AA's that were available at the time I left when OoW was current content. I also play a shaman. So I get back and immediately run off to where I last remember there was good xp to be had, plane of fire. So I get there and there are rangers EVERYWHERE head shotting the place dry. (who really thought instakill abilities were in ANY way a positive design decision? I mean really, WHO WOULD DO SUCH A DUMB THING?). Now I hear about these mercenaries, oh hey, here's an NPC which can operate at somewhat close to the effectiveness of a real player, oh you play a priest archtype? Yeah, we don't really need/want you, this merc will do your job, with far less mistakes and won't ever need AFK breaks etc. AGAIN, WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?

    So I try root rotting in out of the way places, I can't get a group at all, so all I'm left with is soloing. I was at around the same level of a guild mates ranger when I joined this new guild I'm in. Fast forward 5 days, he's already 90+ and I'm still languishing at lvl 75.

    What NEEDS to happen is to incentivise group play more. If you have a party and there are more PC chars in the party than NPC, you should get a considerable XP boost, if all your party is PCs, you should get the best XP boost possible, scale it down according to the ratio of PC : NPC in your party.

    Remove instakill abilities, all it does is cause everyone and their dog to roll rangers/berserkers and to a lesser extent, rogues. This also discourages group play, because, who needs a group when you can wtfpwn everything in sight with little to no effort. I got a good response in general chat to this one liner today. "Rangers are like opinions...", everyone knows it's true.

    I know there are not many players on some servers, but still, this is ridiculous. To me it seems like you've just given up on the population issues and decided to take the easy, crappy path as a solution with the addition of mercs and overpowered solo friendly instakills. I've resubbed, but I'm starting to regret this decision, I'd love to keep playing my shaman, but I really see no point in even trying to struggle with the XP grind with no real option to group. A shaman without a group is 100% gimped in every way. Make your game social again, promote grouped play over this abomination of solo/merc/boxed headshot/decap/assassinate crap that is the leveling game today.
  12. Dre. Altoholic

    Really now. Details?
  13. Battleaxe Augur

    Ronak can provide his own details, but....

    An out of group Mage/Druid damage shields maybe an out of group Shaman or Druid for Apathy or Reptile
    Max damage shield clickies
    go to perhaps two zones in the entire game where mobs con low enough that Assassinate and Final Blow work and the mobs sitll give decent exp.
    Group with a Ranger, Rogue, Bard, etc.
    With Lesson running Furious, normal burn burst followed by Rampage
    face a wall and push mobs toward it so you can Battle Leap and don't have to reposition when you land
    etc.

    What he omits is even camping the Warrior every time a big pull is killed off so you can get a full repop this is something you can do in full one and partially maybe 3 more times (7th will be up once) and then you're done for the day.

    And an SK being able to do this kind of thing in many more zones, do it all day long with 8ish mobs and not just a few times with 50+ (which they can also do), do it with higher level than minimum light blues, redo that pull if it doesn't go well (FD 4tw), accomodate a namer getting into the mix many times a session,....

    It's knights, not Warriors, that are urged in raids to share yardtrash mobs - they needn't tank 4 at a time.

    Shoot guy, if you listened to SK's they'd convince you Mortal Coil is terribad and the Warrior Epic click is just as good as the SK one. Keep in mind Ronak who is a raider plays an SK instead of a fairly capable Warrior alt. It's the Wariror that's on the shelf. :)

    I prolly should post - I know of Ronak long time. We may not agree on a lot but in my experience we're publicly (and in our very very limited private chats) pretty respectful. IMO he knows full well knights have a decided edge in group content and he's just stirring the pot a little, But if not he's entitled to his opinion.
  14. Dre. Altoholic

    Yes, I know how to powerlevel. That's not what we're talking about here.
  15. BoomWalker Augur

    So, the number isn't 3k...far less apparently. Great. Here is some info to chew on...if AA's are given away (or whatever term is used) by expansion the break down is below for druid, SK, and warrior for all three tabs. Special is ignored.

    However, just GENERAL tab = 2826 through VOA.

    Going through a process of picking 'key' or 'core' AA's sounds wonderful...yet...if General is the 'core' AA's anyway...giving away General up to some expansion would seem to meet that goal and not be an issue where one class is at a disadvantage or overpowered, etc. Still, doing it by expansion rather than by a # of AA would probably be a much more balanced approach.

    Originally, Omens was the suggested stopping point of "giving away" AA but with the #'s...it may make sense to give away another expansion or two.

    On beta today...

    By giving all AA's in general tab only...it breaks down as below for a barbarian warrior..but seems general is the same for all race/class...maybe a racial innate here and there tossed in...

    ================
    War - just General

    Ruins of Kunark - none
    Scars of Velious - none
    Shadows of Luclin - 147
    Planes of Power - 307
    Legacy of Ykesha - none
    Lost Dungeons of Norrath - none
    Gates of Discord - 343
    Omens of War - 626
    Dragons of Norrath - none
    Depths of Darkhollow - 710
    Prophecy of Ro - none
    The Serpent's Spine - 810
    The Buried Sea - none
    Secrets of Faydwer - 1014
    Seeds of Destruction - 1280
    Underfoot - 1634
    House of Thule - 2081
    Veil of Alaris - 2826
    Rain of Fear - 3424

    ================

    War/SK/Druid - by expansion - General/Archetype/Class.

    ================

    War

    Ruins of Kunark - none
    Scars of Velious - none
    Shadows of Luclin - 291
    Planes of Power - 577
    Legacy of Ykesha - none
    Lost Dungeons of Norrath - none
    Gates of Discord - 747
    Omens of War - 1173
    Dragons of Norrath - none
    Depths of Darkhollow - 1400
    Prophecy of Ro - none
    The Serpent's Spine - 1741
    The Buried Sea - none
    Secrets of Faydwer - 2387
    Seeds of Destruction - 3233
    Underfoot - 4111
    House of Thule - 5310
    Veil of Alaris - 7267
    Rain of Fear - 8921

    +3 foraging

    ================

    SK

    Ruins of Kunark - none
    Scars of Velious - none
    Shadows of Luclin - 347
    Planes of Power - 593
    Legacy of Ykesha - none
    Lost Dungeons of Norrath - none
    Gates of Discord - 802
    Omens of War - 1313
    Dragons of Norrath - none
    Depths of Darkhollow - 1513
    Prophecy of Ro - none
    The Serpent's Spine - 1884
    The Buried Sea - none
    Secrets of Faydwer - 2794
    Seeds of Destruction - 3949
    Underfoot - 5575
    House of Thule - 7247
    Veil of Alaris - 9523
    Rain of Fear - 11415

    With HT - 11559

    ================

    Druid

    Ruins of Kunark - none
    Scars of Velious - none
    Shadows of Luclin - 315
    Planes of Power - 574
    Legacy of Ykesha - none
    Lost Dungeons of Norrath - none
    Gates of Discord - 763
    Omens of War - 1231
    Dragons of Norrath - none
    Depths of Darkhollow - 1467
    Prophecy of Ro - none
    The Serpent's Spine - 1868
    The Buried Sea - none
    Secrets of Faydwer - 2627
    Seeds of Destruction - 3716
    Underfoot - 4918
    House of Thule - 6373
    Veil of Alaris - 8771
    Rain of Fear - 10943

    ================
  16. Slasher Augur

    General AAs are useless crap take CA/CS out of the conversation and what AAs in general are more useful then class or arch AAs ? Nothing at all. most General AAs are fluff.

    If you grant AAs they HAVE to be meaningful AAs otherwise you're giving people AAs and lowering the bonus they get when they could of spent the first 500 AAs on more useful stuff like CA/CS.
  17. BoomWalker Augur

    While "know more about EQ" and "do a much better job of developing the game" are not even closely related...since there are some that may just do a much better job of developing the game yet not know more about EQ...we will ignore that point since it has little to do with the desire and interest of the community.

    Yet, your point about listening to the community has merit. Ignoring the community is the best option right?

    No.

    But there are those that want...want...want...and will never be satisfied. There is a balance to be had...and while single word answers are easy...more involved answers with some details are normally going to help address even those in the community that are never satisfied. The more involved answer at least gives all involved more understanding. Not that all will like the answer it is at least more informative.

    Heh...don't listen to the community and then the suggestion is to listen to your input...hehe...
  18. Langya Augur

    Yes, I see where the hypocrisy lies in what I posted.

    Still, there have been quite a bit of changes made that do not really seem to address any real and dire flaw in the game but instead have their origins in the whining of the community. The whines come from ignorance or jealousy or usually both. Sometimes there are legit issues that require player feedback to catch, but at this point it seems like the inch has been given and now the game developers are being constantly taken that proverbial mile and the end result is a game that is ever increasingly hard to keep balanced. They listen to one set of whines only to spawn more on the opposing side. The funny thing is, the devs are the ones in charge. Its their jobs and their paychecks that are on the line and ultimately the buck stops with them. Yes, some might argue that we are the customers and "the customer is always right" but sometimes if you provide a product or service there is a need to establish some limits on how "right" the customer really is. This case of the Auto-granting AA should not be something the player base has a whole heck of much say in, other than bringing up that it might be something worth looking into.
    BoomWalker likes this.
  19. Talif Augur

    I never said optimally-optimally you need somewhere near full raid gear/spells anyway. But most non-tank classes can contribute very effectively with well under 5000 well spent AA, especially if they spent their AA with a focus on being ready to raid over everything else-no tradeskills, no randomly spent AAs in junk like the various Innates. If you started a new toon today and your focus was being ready to raid as quickly as possible without being dead weight, you could come in a lot cheaper than 5000.