My solution was to marry an enchanter. Always having the best mana regen buff helps immensely! One thing I never stress about is how different clerics play their class. Like the old saying goes, Different Strokes for Different Folks. We have so many tools and options I encourage clerics to do whatever is fun for them. Obviously they have be mature and intelligent about their choices when raiding but sometimes you put 2 clerics in a group with different styles and the result is synergy.
Undying Life is the "casting container". Undying Blessing, the HP increase buff, is 4 ticks not 6 and so takes 3 cle to keep on a target full time if that's desired. a rotation of 3 clerics each using Undying as it comes up isn't "elaborate". Versus bosses, a MT is typically being spammed by 1-2 cle anyhow, so only one cleric not already focusing them has to fire in their buff once a minute.
True, but we have enough things to keep track of and may not be able to stop what we're doing to keep that rotation up. I can see it leading to things getting real sloppy real fast. Plus tanks can change at a whims notice and throw everybody off. Just keep healing and don't worry about the extra 35k-40k hp provided.
I don't see it as an "either/or" situation. I like to use Undying on the MT for those routine situations where adds are spawning and some of your healer team will now be busy momentarily with offtanks. I will also use it when I'm in the offtank group and I have multiple knights taking damage since it's a great quick casting group heal. We don't ever attempt to use a rotation on it.
We tried that a few times. It was a disaster even with a gina trigger that would call you on your turn. Fun times.
When tanks take damage, we don't see their HP bar move like we would if we were the tank, because of the server-time lag. Which is part of why healers are encouraged to play spam > timing. However, timing doesnt cease to exist entirely. We can make many predictions. Not sure why you would want to nerf your tanks hp by not using a useful tool like undying. My cleric is a mix of tds-ros raid gear (i rarely loot stuff), and mana can become an issue (though with some work, usually a manageable one, even with blowing QM's) Even if you are to argue the point that not using this spell as part of a spam lineup is justifiable, as a timed cast, undying is simply stupendously powerful. e.g. to cast before an add tank engages a few mobs at once (for the hp buff), or usually better, right as he does so in the same instant he's taking some of those rounds, to bandaid the massive damage he 'may' take. or right before an AE or other timed hazards. Timed casts of big heals have saved many a tank from my cleric. A really easy example of the power of deliberate big heal casts saving someone that i would give is if you join a pickup group and pull a small train on the tank, but then throw in something like divine arb > undying life > divine arb during the influx of mobs on them (so your first divine arb will land after some of the mobs have done damage, but not all mobs are yet in melee range). You can keep tanks alive on something they may not have reacted suitably for (or been unable to), buying them some time to do so. Bandaids is the name of the game.
Them unexpected intervention procs on the next target across the room though. As I've stated UL is a good heal. I wouldn't call it stupendous, but it can be great in certain situations. The one min cd is the only thing keeping it from being stupendous. Your example of using it in the group game is solid, and I can see working that into a group spell lineup for that exact kind of situation. The extra 40k~ hp you get is nice, but kind of a drop in the bucket. There are other tools to save you in that event like flash, ward, merciful shield, etc. But yeah, the more the marrier. But does that one extra saving grace (which could otherwise be replaced with a utility that can be used more than UL over the course of the event) really make the difference? The extra hp is not reliably always on the tank so it's not a luxury I'd like to get reliant on but it's not really a bad thing. I very rarely can't achieve the same goal with other tools in an equivalent or superior fashion before their CDs are up and ready to go again. When I even come close to having everything on cd that can work just as well as ul, the raid is beginning to wipe as is, and ul will not save the day. If your clerics are using so many saving graces that UL does end up being a good addition, you probably should have them all mem it but that may mean they have greater underlying issues they need to iron out (not talking smack, this might be a genuine concern). Use ul if it helps you sleep, it's a nice little tool. I was simply trying to help the op with his mana issue as this might be one of his problems by making it clear you can achieve the same or better results with different, manaless tools. And if ul ends up making a difference you can keep using it and manage mana some other way or redefine your healing strategy so you no longer need ul.
More than a drop in the bucket, when the situation presents itself. It can be the difference between life and death. e.g. extra adds on the 1 guy. The boss tank dies and boss runs over to beat on an add tank while they have add/s already (likewise, adds attacking the boss tank because ld's/slack offtanks/assorted everythings that can go wrong). It can be easy for things to get pretty 'cruisey' during farm mode in high end guilds, but when things go wrong (or hopefully, before things go wrong), you want all of those tools available. I prefer not to waste gems on utility, if by that you mean buffs like sf/symbol. (I keep DI loaded, though). I use my most expendable heal as a swap in/out gem to load utility. Using /memspellset hotkeys to load whichever spell quickly between casts. Same or worse results.
When they don't have a chain puller, and they're tanking 1-2 mobs.. ward on tank > run off and tag something with banestrike > DA self > round 'em up > inc choo choo on tank who is still fighting that 1-2 mobs > stand behind tank and click off DA. > repeat cycle when tank is down to 1-2 mobs
Same or worse if your not particularly good at cleric, sure. I've listed ways I'd handle most situations posted here and if you don't see them as equal or better than I can't help ya. If boss runs over and hits add tank and he's not insanely quick and able to observe his otherwise impending doom should he not react appropriately, he's dead in one round (too fast for a ul to be cast on him for the extra 40k hp added to his 350k? Hp that you think will make a difference). If adds pile on the boss tank and you didn't have other tanks with higher agro than boss tank ready to pick them up, your tanks are not doing their job or are all dead and things are going too far south for ul to make a difference before you all die. If you're constantly using all oh crap abilities so they're all on cd all the time, and ul is able to expand this number of abilities by 1, good for you, but this is a key observation that you, your tanks, or other clerics are doing something terribly wrong to put yourselves in that situation in the first place. But if you like using ul and have room for it on your bar, keep using it as you see fit. Ps, idea of not having sf up all the time makes me want to puke. But if you can switch to it and get it on a tank in a timely manner I spose that works.
Wait - sf? Shining Fortress? It "sickens you" to not spend 1.7s of cast time on a 3585 defensive proc heal but you don't see the value of Undying Life's 40k hp? If we're talking smack here - how much do you cast Shining? If you're having to rebuff tanks more than once a minute (Undying Life's cooldown) , then maybe you're letting them die too much eh? Enough too much to maybe take some cues from other heal teams -- that are using Undying Life more than you are.
/laugh, Or the 10% reduction in damage sf provides. My tanks do not die to instances where another 40k (not always available) hp are on them, they die in instances where they were simply going to die due to event mechanics not being followed, bad luck etc. And I do not use all my cds that can achieve the same or better result as ul, so I do not need it taking up another gem. Some on my heal team do use ul, and I have no problem with that as that works for them and maybe they need it to keep up!
So: stacking issues. But forget stacking issues. And forget non-melee damage. Only cheater mobs use nukes & AEs, right? Fuckem. So, on those occasions where a tank without other defenses takes their full hp bar worth of melee-only damage, Shining will have saved them 35k damage. That's your number, from tanks having 350k hp. They will have been 35k hp further away from death. The juxtaposition I'm heading toward is clear. Meanwhile, the buff that provided that benefit? Lasts 10 minutes, and refreshes immediately so it can both be distributed to everyone by a single caster and/or loaded on demand by someone who wants to become that caster. Meanwhile Undying Blessing's powerful benefit is only available to the raid clerics/minute. Each caster that doesn't load it means the raid goes down 1cle/min on it.
So keep using it to your hearts content. If your clerics are doing their job tanks don't need another 40k hp which will just delay the inevitable. Just takes a gem that can be used for a more convenient tool that saves time/focus.
No, you haven't. The only argument that you presented was that because you have some tools that are lifesavers, you therefor shouldn't attempt to use all of them. No. It's not only about having something to deal with the initial swings. The tank may very well cover the initial swings with his own reactions. What if he is still tanking both of these things for 10+ seconds? My tank has been in these scenario's a countless number of times, the amount of hp that he has in group/raid makes a significant difference on the amount of punishment he can take between heals. No. Everyone has experienced a wipe before, but i thought everyone had experienced a recovery as well.. When things start to go bad, this is one of the many tools that can help make that difference. The life or death of 1 tank can be the difference between a wipe, and you have the power to increase that survivability! 4 mobs loose > tank x, y and z all die, a snowball starts. One tank gets off flash and holds the few mobs that are lose and activates some big discs. That tank might hold them all until other tanks are recovered enough/able to peel mobs back off him, 10 seconds later? 30 seconds later? Another tank peels 2 off him, things are looking smooth for a moment, then the boss gets lose and onto this tank as well.. I can keep adding things to this scenario... And you can keep pretending that not having UL wouldn't have increased the survivability of this tank, and potential to avoid a wipe. Yes! of course! That is the whole point & fun of being a damage-control class like a tank or a priest. You do everything in your power to safeguard the raid. There is always a 'tank could've/shoulda used this' or another healer could've/should've used 'this' or 'soandso' shouldn't have been AFK. The point is that you are one of the team of players working toward laying down layers of protection to safeguard things going wrong. People don't always do their job. People make lots of little mistakes, or don't use things that they ought to (wink), they go LD, things go wrong, and saying 'well it's soandso's fault' and then lying down to die might be enough for you, but i prefer to try my best at both safeguarding these inevitable moments of chaos that we will find ourselves in, and you know, actually do my job - I don't just sit down because someone else decided to.
This will be my last post here, any point to continue seems moot. You can't reason with people who cannot be reasoned with, after all. Yes, I have. Feel free to read some of the prior posts if you need proof. If you cannot comprehend how my methods are superior or equal to the use of UL in the same situation, you are inept. That's a personal problem I do not have the ability to help you with. Incorrect on my argument, I mentioned I make use of lifesavers in a way, and infrequently enough to always have the ones I need up, to usually circumvent the desire/need for UL. And if all of them are down, things are moving in a direction that we are going to wipe with or without UL as is. Instances where mechanics were not followed, low on members for the night, etc. (Source: vast experience with and without using UL in the past. Granted, experiences may vary). Since you seem to cherry pick random parts of what I said and miss the greater point most of the time, this does not surprise me. If the boss tank's death is random and you do not expect to be next on agro, you are at the mercy of that first spike (which will probably kill you). If you are lucky, you may survive long enough to hit your discs necessary to live and your clerics may act accordingly (Cast UL, some discs of their own, etc). But alas, it's only about a 12-15% increase in hp, might make a difference, might not. If it does make the difference, good deal. But does it make up for missing out on another resource you could have had loaded in it's place, used for every event in the raid night, just to make up for the one rare occasion you needed it for? Maybe, maybe not. I'll admit this is a decent argument none the less. About the same argument as last quote. Again, it's 12-15% increase in hp. Might save you, might not. I do not pretend it won't increase the survivability of the tank, I think the occasion is too rare and the increase too little to be the difference in life or death more than it's not. And therefore not worth a gem in place of something that you use all the time. You also have to figure the other clerics might be trying to rez, rebuff the tanks that have died and may not notice your need of UL or other lifesavers before it's too late for you, too. But yeah, in a perfect world UL might make a difference here. You have grossly misinterpreted the meaning of my quote there. As stated, from experience, I can circumvent the use of UL almost all of the time. I was implying that, by your tanks/healers doing something horribly wrong, that they are inept or mediocre players, and doing the wrong thing most of the time; not little mistakes here or there, going afk. They are constantly not using abilities properly, not casting enough heals to begin with etc, to lead them to be in a position where UL makes good use of itself all the time. I rarely see these types of mistakes in MS, and have the tools to still work around little mistakes from time to time, or bad RNG, with other tools. The point, which anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension would see, is the point that anyone constantly using all their lifesavers to the point that UL is always being used as well is evidence that the players in question are bad, and their skill level is what's putting them in this predicament in the first place. Get Gud, (Wink). You comparing not having UL loaded and your "sitting down because someone else decided to" mentality is hilarious, and I expect nothing less at this point. Yeah, I can't imagine someone not using Merciful Remedy, either. When taking CDs, amount healed, other nice flashy buffs that come with it, and cast time into account, it's debatable what's the "most powerful heal". But in a general sense it's not UL, or at least not in most situations. Synopsis: UL is a great heal. Not stupendous, but great. Not great enough for me personally to have on my bar, as I don't usually need it as much as everything else I have loaded. If you have it loaded, I'm sure it's served you well and you are the better for it, we all play different or have different experiences. This idea that I believe UL was useless altogether is non existent, but what people seem to be preaching. Hilarious. The difference between an entire raid of clerics using it and that of one not using it, is very minor, and probably unnoticeable on either side of the spectrum. Most of my clerics and I do not use it, and...well we do fine and don't really experience many of the arguments made for UL. I provided an instance where I'd handle almost every situation mentioned, and anyone who has half a brain and can connect the dots would agree that they are equal or better. It doesn't help that most situations presented were full of hot air; they either never occur as stated or reveal far greater underlying problems with your raid force than having UL loaded or not. Either way, if you need that one extra lifesaver, go for it. The OP asked about info for augs, I may have misinterpreted this as some of the heals he had loaded as being mana drains and offered an idea to help curb this to lessen the need for mana return augs etc, but this whole thread has gotten silly but was fun to read and learn how other clerics do things. Cheers!
I did read them, and you didn't. UL can be used proactively as well as purely reactively as well. I'm sure you assume 'there was no need for UL' on many occasions where it would have in fact, have been very useful in reducing the likelihood of situations getting worse. I'm still yet to hear what spell is so important that you can't afford to load it. Lines like "if all of them are down, things are moving in a direction that we are going to wipe with or without UL as is." reads to me as both defeatist and contradictory. Contradictory, in that you have also agreed in your response that UL could have made a difference. In any of these scenario's, or the events building to them, having that extra hp on the tank even randomly in the first place as a result of someone using it on cooldown, is helping safeguard things going wrong. The tank surviving that first bad spike when something goes awry because the buff happened to be on them. Exactly. Name that resource. You had mentioned 'utility' to which I pointed out that instead of permanently wasting a gem, there is /memspellset for single spell swap in's. To which you appeared to acknowledge, but say 'too hard, i'm lazy. SB/symbol instead'. All raids are full of a myriad of mistakes from all players and lack of full optimization of their abilities, i make plenty of mistakes myself. MS certainly isn't exempt from that. Been there. The point, is that whether you are proactively casting it on cooldown to reduce the odds of things going bad, or hoarding it reactively (I do a bit of both, depending on what tools are up), the only counter-argument produced to using one of your most powerful abilities is that you want to have symbol loaded instead of swapping such spells in/out. Lazy.
Undying Blessing says right on it it's 19.3% hp, you don't have to "guess" 12-15. Undying Life, besides providing that benefit in 0.8s, doesn't skip a heal to do it, since a very strong Remedy is built right into it. It also counteracts group damage at the same time, with the equivalent of a guaranteed Tunare's Grace proc. I defy you to produce an honest log in which you cast 13 other more productive spells more frequently than 1/minute each, or to even describe a situation in which you were the only one available to load four buffs and could also spend all your time casting them.
