Augments on Cleric

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Gnomereaper, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Gnomereaper Augur

    Looking at the various constructs was wondering what people.

    Tome of Manipulation?
    Helping Hand?

    What do you guys use.
  2. Heile Lorekeeper

    I use both since mana is at a premium without the anniversary shield anymore. Any little mana i can save (tome aug) or get back from casting spells (helping hand) is a plus.
  3. Gnomereaper Augur

    Sacred Prayer Shawl of the Duke for Brell's Divination still a useful effect?
  4. Drogba Augur

    i like to put the helping hand on my mana return bandolier set, so i can toggle to that if i'm concerned about mana preservation (or if i've just died or something and need to get mana back)
  5. Karhar Augur

    I use neither and rarely if ever have issues with mana
    Playful likes this.
  6. Gnomereaper Augur

    Prayer Shawl of the Duke Brell's Divination Still a thing?
  7. Cadira Lorekeeper

    Shawl still helps a lot. I never have mana issues. Using undying will hurt but I no longer have it loaded. A smart cleric would probably go for full ac/hp augs with the focus being hp. If you have mana issues I'd consider removing undying from your line up and replacing with an intervention (unless you aren't using undying) and continue using helping hand and tome.
  8. Stephsanity Augur

    hps? 300k isn't enough? Unmeming undying and not using mana augs doesn't seem smart
    Metanis likes this.
  9. Karhar Augur

    AC/HP for years now, not using augs that primarily gear for mana is what i do, if im dead, what good is all that extra mana?
    Metanis and Cadira like this.
  10. Playful Journeyman

    I never use the mana augs such as helping hand/tome of manipulation. I do have the shawl aug because I was able to buy it and just complete the 3.0. I'm not sure if I would do the whole quest over again, if I had to. Not that worth it to me. That being said, once you get enough gear, mana is never a problem. I was discussing this last night with a druid, that I'd be willing to lower my quiet miracle recast to 5 mins, because that's how much mana is not a problem anymore. I cast Undying Life as soon as it is up, it's the first spell in my line up. Last night on raids I cast it 63 times.

    Overall for augs I go with Hsta, because hit points are nice. I also never use my 1h/shield anymore, I always use a 2h, because what's a life without whimsy.
    Metanis likes this.
  11. Stephsanity Augur

    Why do you have mana issues using undying life? Gear? Low Heroic Wis? Its a great spell for all its uses and not using it seems silly.
    Metanis likes this.
  12. Belkar_OotS Augur

    I use all 3 augments (helping hand, tome, and brells) and I feel that they are the best bang for your buck augments available. They are worth many times a standard augment with regards to potential benefit. They work against mana drains, and mana caps, specialization suppression like in Tower of Rot, and every other mana oriented situation out there including death recovery. There really are not 3 different augments that are better for general usage that have such an easily measurable positive benefit. I can't see 180 ac and 1200hp and 20 of your favorite heroic stat changing game play as much as those 3. Using them means I can grind longer and harder, I can more liberally use our activated AA and more intense spell usage, offer quiet miracle to others etc.

    Some people don't have mana issues and more power to them. But mana usage in a mid tier raid guild is much more intense than in top guilds. There are many situations and you need to decide what makes the most sense for you. In my case, my play sessions do result in strained mana, and keeping my mana up is still a goal.
  13. Conq Journeyman

    Yes, at some point in your journey, your gear will provide you with enough mana and mana regen that you hardly ever check your mana %, ever. Half the time, I opt to forego Yaulp. Until then the above listed augs do wonders. Use them until you don't need them anymore. I keep an old Grannus' Steamcleaner with Helping Hand in it just in case, but otherwise I've built for HP.
    Conq
  14. Cadira Lorekeeper


    I don't really run out of mana with undying, but a weaker cleric probably would. Undying is about the only thing that really starts to move that blue bar down a noticeable amount.

    As far as it's usefulness, it's an amazing heal, but the 1 minute cd cripples it's usefulness in any situation. It takes up a gem that could otherwise be used by a useful utility etc at the tiny loss in healing by just using interventions instead.
  15. Clarisa Augur


    Undying Life is a very useful spell when used situationally. It combines three effects (a 19.3% HP increase on the target that can last up to 36 sec, a 51895 base single-target heal on the target, and a 23872 base group heal centered on the priest) in a single spell with a recast of 60 sec. If you're in a situation where your group just got hit with an AOE and you see a knight outside the group barely hanging on to life, with Undying Life you can restore his health, give him an HP buff that allows him to sustain more damage for around half a minute, and heal the damage your group just sustained all in a single 0.8 sec cast. That's an incredible amount of healing and utility that none of our other spells or abilities can really match in a single cast. In a situation like that without Undying Life, in a single cast I wouldn't be able to provide the knight with any HP buff, and I would be forced to choose between casting my fastest single-target 0.5 sec cast Merciful Remedy (which only heals for 11783), casting a group heal on my group, the fastest being the 1.8 sec cast Syllable of Mending (which only heals for 15382), or attempt to heal everyone within a 50 foot AOE range of my target for 2-ish sec. with Mending Splash for significantly less (7834 base). A situation like this where all 3 effects end up being useful isn't common, of course, but even if only 1 of those 3 effects ends up being useful, for the amount of time it took to cast, I still get more out of it.

    I emphasize situational use because using Undying Life as just a stronger Remedy with a slightly slower cast time as part of a spam key does end up wasting a lot of the potential of the spell and I highly discourage our clerics from using it this way. Given the 60 sec recast timer, clerics are much better off using it for the HP buff or at times when the stronger fast single-target heal and group heal are actually needed. Even if clerics end up spamming it, though, it's hard to argue that the spell isn't worth a slot. There are few other utility spells (besides DI and Ward) that are as useful to keep memorized and clerics generally have enough room with Undying for those and at least another of the less useful utility spells.
    Drogba and Thoxsel like this.
  16. Clarisa Augur

    As far the shawl/shawl aug go, as others mentioned, it's still useful just not as useful as it was before they added a duration to the effect. The Tome of Manipulation and Helping Hand augs are useful as well in maintaining mana (Tome being better because it provides a consistent mana-saving benefit), along with a 1HB with a SIB (Sympathetic Invigorating Burst) effect and the Dark Shield of the Scholar.

    These things are practically useful only if they allow you to use all the spells you want and at the frequency you want to use them throughout an event and keep you from running out of mana before an event ends, so some clerics who don't find them useful decide not to use some or all of them and instead use items and augs that provide additional HP or AC. The same, however, goes for those things as well. If you don't get hit during the entirety of an event or don't get hit hard enough where those items and augs would have prevented you from dying, then, they too weren't practically useful. Some clerics will argue that the HP/AC items and augs have a better chance to be useful, but in the end, we're talking about 2 augs in place of the stat-less Tome and Helping Hand (because the 1HB, shield, and shawl aug have stats and aren't that far behind comparatively "better" items) that unless they are "super augs" like the Artisan's Prize won't enhance your survivability that much.

    In the end, you have to use what you feel would be more convenient or useful to you. I myself just stick to the Tome and the mana-proc items, even if it they aren't necessary most of the time, and go for HP/AC in other gear items. I don't miss the survivability that I would gain from the 2 stat augs because if I do die, it is often due to something that would have killed me anyway, and I will have the full mana-conservation set to help me work with a smaller mana pool without having to be bothered to swap to it.
    Drogba and kizant like this.
  17. Cadira Lorekeeper

    If you use the three remedy method I can see having room for undying for very specific use. I sure as hell don't remember the effect lasting 36s, believe it was 18s but could be mistaken. In your situation I'd hit the knight with a burst followed by a remedy if he's tanking, considering even a .8s cast plus your reaction speed probably isn't enough to save him if he was tanking something significant. Followed by a splash, which will not only heal your group but the entire raid who just ate an ae, since your group is clearly not in immediate danger considering your more focused on a knight outside the group. I certainly don't think it's useless, just too long of a cd to spam, and too rare a circumstance (assuming you were skilled and fast enough to branch off from the normal train of thought and actually decide using undying in an emergency situation before it was too late) for it to be worth a gem in place of other utilities.

    But we both digress. He asked for Aug help, so I assumed his mana was having trouble, and if he spammed UL like you and I both disagree with, that will hurt his mana over a moderate amount of time.
  18. Clarisa Augur


    I memorize 3 Remedies, 2-3 Interventions, Ward, DI, and Splash and can still make room for Undying Life. My point was that the 0.8 sec Undying Life in that particular situation provided three benefits compared to the 1 that most spells offer, including 1 (the HP buff) that had the potential to last beyond the cast of the spell and make the tank easier to heal. It is true that you need more situational awareness and experience in anticipating healing needs to be able to cast on outside targets while still taking care of your group, but spells like Undying Life make it easier because they heal your group at the same time.


    I hate to go off-topic, too, but I'd rather point things like this out than have a cleric un-memorize Undying Life when it's actually one of our better utility spells. Used situationally, it shoudn't have a huge impact on anyone's mana pool unless they are severely undergeared to begin with and aren't able to maintain things like the Remedy sequence (which has a base mana cost of 3838 mana every 6 sec of use) for an extended amount of time without running out of mana.
  19. Cadira Lorekeeper

    Your situation could have been handled just fine and even better with other tools is my point, and some of the multi benefits that UL provide just end up as over healing 9/10 times, when you could instead have stuff like alliance, ward, shining, one (or two) buffs up, issuance etc up in its place.

    Unless you have some elaborate rotation to keep the hp buff on the mt at all times (a god awful idea) it's not something you should rely on as it probably is just delaying the inevitable if you can't keep the tank up with a few less hp as is.
  20. Gnomereaper Augur

    I come from a different time period, and enjoy reading the conjecture.

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