Assassination, Decapitation, Finishing Blow, etc...

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Xyphen, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. Xyphen Augur

    I can't think of one good reason why these can't be toggled on/off, but I can think of plenty of reasons why they should. Going back and finishing off achievements has been a nightmare with quests requiring you to "DPS soandso down to X% then do Y". This one in particular was extremely annoying: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=7534, requiring you to DPS a mob to 10% (finishing blow triggers at 10.5%).

    Yes, you can un-equip daggers as a Rogue to prevent Assassination ripostes from deleting mobs, but that still doesn't negate Banestrikes and Finishing Blow. It isn't always advantageous to hit mobs for over 4 million damage.
    Moege, Skuz, Nennius and 1 other person like this.
  2. Cadira Augur

    Agreed.

    I've heard a lot of people having trouble with zerk 1.5 final mob due to decapitation. I never had issues the two times I did it following the advice of others on how to most likely prevent it but there are 100s of good reasons for the abilities to be on a toggle.
    Nennius, minimind and Xyphen like this.
  3. Xyphen Augur

    Yeah, same with the rogue 2.0. You need to balance kill 4 skeletons in a Miragul's raid to prevent them from auto-respawning. At this level Banestrike one-shots them, but there's no way to solo melee a mob down while preventing Banestrike from going off.
    Nennius, minimind and Cadira like this.
  4. Szilent Augur

    there's no need to melee that mob at all
  5. Szilent Augur

    those mobs do not need to be balanced. changing them to all match is done by killing them.
  6. minimind Augur

    Is that the same one that drops the 35 AC aug? I've been playing through that... it's annoying, but I've been able to complete it a few times. I just take off all damage shields, turn my back to them all, and use my damaging combat abilities to take them to red skeleton form and them rampage them.
    akanna and Skuz like this.
  7. Cadira Augur

    maybe that's how i did it...the whole encounter is fuzzy.
  8. Szilent Augur

    yep that's the encounter
  9. Xyphen Augur

    Was someone offering you $1 million to come up with any kind of pedantic, contrarian response?

    What other term would you like to use for "individually DPSing 4 multi-colored mobs until they're all red, then beating them to a point where they can die within a couple seconds of each other"? To clarify, they are low enough HP where a single 105+ Banestrike is enough to reset the cycle. And yes, you can cheese it with a big 2-hander and Rampage.

    I honestly implore anyone to provide any reason, aside from some odd technical issue, that these abilities shouldn't be able to be toggled off. I can turn off Sleight of Hand, an aggro reduction proc, but I can't turn off the ability to delete mobs with a throwing knife crit? What?
  10. Skuz Augur

    Decap & finishing blow on a toggle? Yes please.

    It was done for distracting strikes etc & that is really useful (I turn it off if no tank is available & I get the "lucky" slot in the group filling in for one).

    An excellent idea, these abilities can be a handicap in certain situations, like when my guild did ToFS anniversary event & I was "lucky" & got multi decaps & a finishing blow in 1 combat round on a mob we needed to hold at low hp...

    oops! sorry folks.
    minimind likes this.
  11. Szilent Augur

    The ranger epic has a banestrike issue. The Tower of Rot task linked above has a banestrike issue. That LDoN encounter does not. Bringing up Banestrike in its case is a red herring - the fact is, any 105+ melee hit, including a completely empty handed riposte hit, is enough to reset one of those skeletons, so Banestrike is completely besides the point.

    Sure Banestrike should be a toggle. Banestrike BEING a toggle won't help you win that encounter, because Banestrike isn't relevant to whether you win or lose.
  12. Xyphen Augur

    Oh please.
    1. Remove weapons
    2. Put non-damage item in primary (no riposte)
    3. Remove haste item, buffs, DS
    In the absence of passively triggered bombs, an offhand fist attack from a rogue is enough to control DPS down to the 60-70s range (which is how I did the Miragul's skeletons).

    In fact, at 115, you could probably even balance a dry bones skeleton in Oasis:

    [IMG]

    https://wiki.project1999.com/Dry_Bones_Skeleton

    ... if Banestrike doesn't proc.
  13. Szilent Augur

    I don't know what you think is going on in that encounter, but they don't have to be balanced. There's no balance going on. It's killing them that advances them toward red. Either you want to deal one some damage, to kill it, to advance that mob, or you don't. Banestrike won't deal damage to anything you're not already dealing damage to, so it has 0 potential to mess up that encounter.
  14. Xyphen Augur


    bal·ance
    /ˈbaləns/
    1. an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady.
    2. a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

    Task 2: involves killing four skeletons. They hit for ~1100 and must be killed at the SAME TIME. Beat them down until they turn red, and then beat them down further to within a few % short of their death. Then AE them to death. This updates your task window.

    You don't know/recall how this encounter works. Since I'm so nice, I ran it to demonstrate for you:
    1. Pictured on the left, you'll notice 4 different colored skeletons
    2. In the extended target window, you'll notice that they're at different HP %s (see above definition of "balance"). Unless you have a single shot Rampage ability, the red skeletons need to be brought low enough where something like a multi-target Rake's Rampage can finish them simultaneously.
    3. The yellow box demonstrates that each skeleton has around 60khp. Plenty for an offhand fist attack to balance.
    4. The red box demonstrates how, in the process of balancing one skeleton's HP to the others, a Banestrike proc occurred which over-damaged it, thereby leading to its reset and the colors mismatching.
    [IMG]

    Does this make sense yet?
    akanna likes this.
  15. Szilent Augur

    I understand the story you're telling, it's just -- I've not encountered that difficulty. I've done rogue epic on two characters (shield aug more times, but those classes have their own tools. screw those tank guys.), and both goes I've 1) turned em all red, 2) circled them together, 3) faced them, at which point they all simultaneously riposted themselves to death. One could "force the issue" using /disc Counter, if there was too much trouble? I didn't have to.

    Final forms are more fragile than the starting Icy, btw. Under 40k hp for the bright red chromatic
  16. Xyphen Augur

    YMMV I guess. I found it easier to just bring my war in and Rampage rather than dance around the mechanics (for Rogue epic + aug runs).
  17. Monkman Augur

    While I agree, some of these abilities should be able to be toggled... the specific event you posted pics of and seem to be complaining about.... you're thinking too hard about it.

    Literally just round up the 4 skellies, and riposte them down over and over and over and over again until they all line up and the event is completed (I ran this raid a lot for my SK's AC aug, in general my method took ~3-5 minutes each time)
  18. akanna New Member

    Appreciate this tip i will be doing it on 3 lvl 110 max aa rogues soon and probably would not have thought to just bring an aoe friend :p
  19. Xyphen Augur

    I'm not "complaining" about it. I've done it for my Rogue 2.0 and dozens of other times for the augs. I'm just showcasing one example out of a thousand where controlled DPS is component mechanic, and how simply being able to toggle the abilities on/off has more upside than down.
  20. kyong Augur

    FWIW I have done that skeleton part multiple times. I found out this - sometime around 20-25 minutes of alternating targets / continuing to turn on auto attack after a skeleton dies I either time it right by pure luck or the event times out and I continued on. Never failed me.
    Xyphen likes this.

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