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Artificial intelligence and EverQuest

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Bagel, Apr 8, 2024.

  1. Galvanize Elder

    Those slightly sharper still awful looking textures aren't what people are imagining when people think "Remade with HD textures" or "Modern graphics"
    [IMG]
    Ingame screenshot from Mortal Online 2, like actual gameplay (Terrible game, but just an example)
    What EQ is working with:

    [IMG]

    It'll never be on that level but people just hoped it would be possible to find...a middleground? But I'm sure there's some engine limitations that probably don't allow for anything close to it

    Though ironically performance wise modern games run better than EQ :(
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  2. baby-iksar Journeyman

    AI already replaced the devs... they think they are "working from home", but no. The devs are obliviously in the matrix.

    AI will not write the codez and replace the devs. However, AI tooling, like codewhisperer, are pretty interesting. You could reduce team size and not lose productivity, in theory.

    For example, let's say it takes you 4 hours to write a program to detect how many lakes exist inside all of the islands in a 2d map... So find the islands, then count all bodies of water inside each island, and return that total. But if your IDE generates the entire method and the unit tests for you in 1 second, that's kind of nice.

    Or if it detects your function is trying to do something, and it helps you with it... and even uses existing code base to style it (notices you use a utility method to do something, and re-uses it, etc). I mean, it beats searching StackOverflow ;p.

    But in reality, in most cases, AI will make mistakes, and a dev will need to know the edge cases to tell the program to consider, to write "proper" code. So while the tooling is pretty nifty, it does not make a junior dev operate like a principal engineer. Nor does it replace a dev by doing their job for them, while they live in the matrix... But it can take a medium level or senior level engineer less steps to get a proper code figured out. So that's a productivity boost.. which could require less people on a team if you maintain the same output. It's like a search engine, but it can specifically generate the code you need, instead of give you enough info to know what to do. ScArY.
    Nennius likes this.
  3. uberkingkong Augur

    Good post, yeah Artifical not Automated.

    Yeah I agree with the misperception of intelligence.

    Its like this, coding. A simple function does amazing thing.
    Now its a program which consists a bunch of functions that do amazing things.
    AI is just a step up from a program, basically it has access to BIG DATA, and has machine learning.

    However,

    However, a step up from a progam, call it AI.
    It doesn't do anything unless you provide it inputs. So replacing a Dev? Dev is doing some work on a project, takes time.

    That project manager that could just use AI instead using multiple dev's, sure AI could replace those dev's but they hire the dev's because it takes time. The Project Manager doesn't have time to provide inputs everywhere and understand the structure and what not.

    What it does mean is,
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/one-hobby-dev-eq-unreal-engine-5-2.297426/

    1 person with a lot of motivation can get a lot done.
    btw 1 person or multiple people with motivation, can get a lot done, doesn't mean you go to a 1 person dev crew. just increases output of what someone can do.
    Which means, things should be done FASTER.
    ex. 2024 thought of a new game 5-7 years to make.
    Wrong, AI means faster so faster than 5 years.
    2002 games took 1-3 years, LESS than 5-7 years.
    2002 there was no AI, imagine AI back then, and the motivation of people back then. You'd have games biannually or sooner. WEEKLY patches.

    What it does mean is,
    you provide inputs on your dream TLP
    you provide inputs on your dream MMORPG game
    you provide inputs on your dream video game
    you provide inputs on your dream app

    You can make it happen.
    In a nutshell, means you use the AI to make your own entertainment, your own game. You don't need to wait on gaming companies to dish out games, you just let AI know what you want and it will see through it as long as you keep providing inputs/status updates on your dream thing.

    only way AI can take over the world is if someone provides inputs on taking over the world.

    Also, one other food for thought.
    AI is not continuous.
    It gives you feedback and then waits.

    Ex. takeover world situation.
    AI do it
    it launches missiles at locations that it seems most impactful
    does nothing after, it waits for further instructions

    the people moved to avoid
    AI is still waiting for input

    Hi AI the people moved, here there locations now

    Ex. coding perspective
    AI make a game
    makes the game and waits

    say some dependency change that is gamebreaking depreciation
    Hi AI the code doesn't work anymore fix it

    Both situations, requires someone technical, knows how to takeover the world, knows how to code to provide inputs.

    It's not like replicators in Stargate SG-1. Thats, the AI I want,
    watch me fight and help me out, think on your own.
    watch me code, this is what I'm trying to achieve and help me out, think on your own.
  4. Jardad Journeyman

    "Landmark" :rolleyes: ?
  5. JetZeppelin2h Augur

    Don't forget AI is just basically doing the following to code. If you wanted to change all variables from int to a double AI is just doing the following.

    crtl h
    type int
    type double
    drop down set to entire solution
    click replace

    That is basic AI for what it is doing. Given more complex training these days but it all comes down to pretty simple things like that. The AI comes in when it may notice you did int instead of int space and there could be alot of words in that code that have int in the middle and will cause problem without the space. Now even with the space it can still fail if a word ends in int even if it isn't a variable so you could also look for space int space format as well etc. An AI system could check how many possible replacements there will be and decide which is likely the best way to replace etc.
  6. ttobey Developer

    I have a feeling when this AI Superlord starts trying to export characters into the EQ1 engine most of it's responses will be
    >Wait...What?
  7. Alnitak Augur

    EQ: Engine.
    AI Superlord: What?
    EQ: Now slower for you - E-N-G-I-N-E.
    AI Superlord: What engine? You call that an engine?
    EQ: Sheesh. You are an artifical dumbness, not intelligence. Look around - it's Norrath! An engine all around. Now start your superlordship and come up with new creative ideas!
    AI Superlord: .... <crickets> .... <distant moscito flies by> .... <more crickets> ...
    EQ: Anything yet?
    AI Superlord: Ok. I am processing. What is the target base? Millenials, Gen Z'ers ?
    EQ. What a dummy you are! Gen X'ers! They've got grey hair even on their backs. They are all stubborn, full of themselves and love EQ since the release. Now, back to your thinking and come up with something creative or that ogre will smack you with his club and will force you to mate with that troll mama. She will like it and you will not!
    AI Superlord: ... ,crickets> ... How about eating gnomes!!!!
    EQ: Captain Obvious! We've been eating gnomes for the last 25 years! Be CREATIVE!
    AI Superlord: ... I am outta here, I get dumber by just trying.
    EQ: Go dummy, go. We got gnomes to punt, it's the punting season now!
  8. Nennius Curmudgeon

    I spoke to the AI superlord. He wouldn't tell me a lot about his plans but he did say that pallies will rule and halflings are in deep trouble. Also, he is out of Taco Bell coupons. :(
    Sissruukk, Scila and ttobey like this.
  9. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    It's a super interesting topic if you're actually familiar with what 'AI' currently IS and IS NOT.

    -It's not actually intelligence, but it's a catchy name.
    -The core 'models' used were derived from the entire internet (years ago, and continue to be added to). They scraped everything, copyrighted material, misinformation, propaganda, mis-spellings, biases, everything.
    -It is all distilled down to a pattern match, what was the most common thing that came next in the sequence, given the weighting of what is 'important' to the desired output of the user.
    -This methodology works, and has long ago been done for Visual Art, Music, Text, and more.
    -It was 'rushed to market' for big companies to use it, there may be some legal minefields to come but they already have been using it for some time.

    The too many fingers thing is fixed by using poseable armatures and all sorts of refinements since those early days. It is expanding rapidly. All jokes aside.

    As it applies to Digital Art and EQ specifically:
    For one thing it is the death of the Concept Artist, virtually entirely in the future. It is so fast and so easy to produce so many prototype/concepting art pieces. This is one of it's strengths. And sadly some exec in an office with no art experience at all can rig it up and say 'Hey Stable Diffusion, make a cool image of an outerspace landscape, with a medium shot of each of the actors we just hired, in a spiffy spacesuit.'

    For EQ I could easily churn out tons of new concept art, upscale current assets in automated batches, and yes even do the rough rigging (wink) as a third party. Many already have done some of those things long ago.

    It's not intelligent on it's own AT ALL! But it is taking people's jobs for the COMPANY OVERLORD right now, and the future will only see it get worse.

    That's the rumor I heard anyway. Feel free to discuss.
    Rijacki likes this.
  10. ttobey Developer


    I don't agree with you on this one. How it will probably be used in my opinion, spin up a lot of concept ideas with AI , whittle those down and send those images off to the concept guy.
    Art Director: "This is sort of what we are thinking for this character."
    Then the concept guy is going to come up with original concepts with a better understanding of what the client is looking for and that the company will be free to own without guilt. It just will speed up the back and forth between Art Directors and concept artists by narrowing down the back and forth between outsource companies that often are not in the US.
    Risiko, Scila, Nennius and 2 others like this.
  11. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    I largely agree with you. But each companies usage will be tailored to it's particular needs. With the commonality being, the executives will want to use it to their perceived highest cost effectiveness, whether this benefits the art staff or not.
    Rijacki likes this.
  12. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    That is the best use of it. However, the jaded skeptic in me thinks Magnus might be more correct in that the pencil pushers, who do not understand the value of actual artists, will think it can replace real artists. Those same type of pencil pushers think software testers only add costs and no value by thinking that developers can test their own code.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  13. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Also it's considered ForumQuest good form to use Ellipses (...) when you edit a quote in your reply.
    ;)
    Rijacki likes this.
  14. ttobey Developer

    As if I have any good forum etiquette!
    Nennius, MasterMagnus and Rijacki like this.
  15. Tachyon Augur


    original graphic models? eq runs like butter on my no so high end system
  16. Galvanize Elder

    EQ runs like unoptimized garbage . Zone into guild lobby or PoK to confirm that for yourself where framerate goes down dramatically for a low polygon 25 year old game that any modern hardware should crush but doesn't. If you think EQ is running smoothly play a modern game and report back
  17. Tachyon Augur

    i play may many games, develop a few... you be wrong
    Rijacki likes this.
  18. Scila Augur

    My 2 cp on this one ... gigo ... ai as well as anything else ... is only as good as the information provided.

    Some are watching too much futuristic syfy and thinking oohh neat we can do that now. Or listening to the conspiracy theorists about how it already exists and has taken over the world. We're not there... baby steps.

    You're also forgetting the human aspect ... yeah you sitting behind the keyboard. When that day comes and AI is doing all those things that everybody wants it to do ... is there a roof over your head? Do you have food on the table? Do you have that job that you want? Can you afford to do all those cool fun things you want to do? Or, are you sitting somewhere not able to afford a computer, internet connection, log into a game that was created by AI because you have no way to pay for it?

    Before everyone jumps on the AI bandwagon ... think. Humans will be needed somewhere, but at what capacity, doing what, and are the jobs available v human numbers. My guess is the skill level required to manage the AI's will be greater vs lower and more technical. There are plenty of futuristic syfy shows that also show that side of it if you are paying attention. What kind of world do you want to live in?

    We live in the now ... what we're looking at with AI is years in the future if it's even in most of our lifetimes. We're just starting to scratch the surface. Like others have said, it's an interesting concept, but it's not a simple accomplishment to work right.

    Alexa - why am I three states away from my house?
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  19. kizant Augur

    Just let the AI make all the decisions. Any answer us small minded animals come to would likely be wrong anyway.
  20. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Alexa: "You're in Mississippi, would you like to update your location?"

    Chatbotgpt: "You're experiencing the third state of grief known as 'bargaining'. By contemplating and reflection you should be able to reach 'acceptance' and return to your normal state"
    Scila, Rijacki and Nennius like this.