Are new Epics of the table forever?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by IblisTheMage, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

    I am not talking about the very elaborate and deep quests of the past, but a template quest that works for all classes, with some generic hunter/slayer/drop/etc, that can be finalized with a class specific dialogue and hand-in of old epic + drops with a dragon/god/dragongod, for an epic aug, that is a continuation of the Epic functionality (but without the design flaws of the old ones, where some would work regardless of level, while others became obsolete too fast).

    Or making the old ones usefull for all classes, at least...

    In another thread it was mentioned that this had been adressed in a stream by a dev, saying it would never happen...
  2. Whulfgar Augur

  3. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    I wouldn't mind seeing Class Specific Weaps like we got in RoF. I would think this route wouldn't be too hard to implement, the hardest part would be creating all the items. It utilized a normal quest line that was the same for all classes, it just rewarded a class specific item to each player. There was also a raid drop to turn them into the "Raid Versions" so it would be useful to groupers and raiders alike.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  4. Koveras Elder

    They should consider the idea of giving us Epic AA abilities that mimic the effects from the very Epic Weapons we get. Furthermore, said abilities should be allowed ranks to become more powerful.

    And this is why Lady Carolline of Thex should give out such solo quests for Epic AA abilities, the only way we can get them is if we already got the Epic Weapons beforehand (pretty much for the same reason she will only allow us to do Epic Ornaments is once we complete the Epic Weapons Quests)

    As for Epic AA ideas, I had a number of ideas in mind as seen below.

    Dance of the Blade (Bard Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank adds to the bonus to offensive attack by 5 points. Furthermore, it not only increases strength by 5 points but also adds heroic strength by 5 points as well.

    Spirit of Vesagran (Bard Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further increases chance to do critical blasts and critical dots beyond 12% by an additional 1% chance per rank.

    Sha's Vengeance (Beastlord Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the disease counter beyond 3 points. Furthermore, it also increases the overall damage over time beyond 9 points per rank as well.

    Might of the Wild (Beastlord Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further increases double attack and chance to avoid melee by 1% point per rank. Furthermore, it also further increases and recovers max hit points beyond 1,000 per rank as well.

    Water Sprinkling Reviviscence (Cleric Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the number of corpses you can resurrect within radius. Furthermore, ranks passed the 5th simply increase the radius of resurrecting up to 80 corpses.

    Divine Balance (Cleric Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the healing beyond 2,300 points.

    Divine Blessing (Cleric Epic 2.0 AA): This grants the Cleric the ability to decrease bash hate with any shield the Cleric oneself will bash with. Furthermore, it also reduces the amount of hate the Cleric gets for any spell the cleric oneself will cast for an additional 5 levels beyond 75 per rank.

    Wraith of Nature (Druid Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the damage over time beyond 55 points per tick.

    Season's Fury (Druid Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further increases the level limit of incoming spell damage by 5 levels per rank.

    Speed of the Shissar (Enchanter Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the Agility bonus beyond 40 points and even grants a Heroic Agility to said bonus. Furthermore, every rank also further increases the migration armor class beyond 12 points.

    Aegis of Abstraction (Enchanter Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the damage absorb beyond 1,800 points. Furthermore, it also further deceases even more hate beyond 900 per rank.

    Elemental Mastery (Magician Epic 1.0 AA): This will grant the Magician's pet the following abilities: Aura of Elemental Mastery, Elemental Mastery Blast & Elemental Mastery Strike. Each rank further improves the effectiveness of said abilities (Aura of Elemental Mastery should be superior to all the magician's pure damage shields) and further ranks in said AA ability further improves the effectiveness of Elemental Mastery Blast & Strike respectfully.

    Primal Fusion (Magician Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves Primal Fusion Parry where the Magician's Elemental Pet can stun any encounter beyond 75th level for 5 additional levels per rank. Furthermore, the said pet can also deal even more damage beyond 200 points per proc damage.

    Torment of Shadows (Necromancer Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the damage over time beyond 75 points per tick.

    Guardian of Blood (Necromancer Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the level of the summoned skeletons by 5 points per rank.

    Flame Shock (Paladin Epic 1.0 AA): This grants the Paladin to perform a fire elemental-based proc that also grows in power beyond 180 points of fire damage.

    Holy Shock (Paladin Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the magic proc damage beyond 155 points. Furthermore, every rank also stuns beings by an additional 5 levels per rank.

    Soulfire Complete Heal (Paladin Epic 1.0 AA): This grants the Paladin to cast Complete Heal. Furthermore, every rank further improves the heal beyond 7,500 points.

    Flames of the Valiant (Paladin Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the proc damage beyond 240 points. Furthermore, its stun effect also affects encounters beyond 73rd level by increasing it to an additional 5 levels per rank.

    Celestial Tranquility (Monk Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further improves the Monk's armor class beyond 12 points. Furthermore, it also further improves the Monk's attack beyond 40 points.

    Peace of the Disciple (Monk Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank improves the Peace of the Disciple Strike beyond 300 points per rank.

    Earthcall (Ranger Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further improves the damage over time beyond 20 points. The Ranger can still proc a 70% slow which will remain 70%.

    Falcon Strike (Ranger Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the chances to perform critical hits with all skills and further improves accuracy by 2% per rank.

    Seething Fury (Rogue Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further improves evasion armor class for the Rogue oneself.

    Deceiver's Blight (Rogue Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the triple backstab by 5 additional points per rank. Furthermore, it also further improves the Deceiver's Bright Strike by an additional 0.5% per rank.

    Soul Consumption (Shadowknight Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further improves the damage over time beyond 50 points. The Shadow Knight in turn gets just as much in hit points as the affected individuals take damage.

    Lich Sting (Shadow Knight Epic 2.0 AA) Every rank further improves the power of the dark siphon by an additional 0.5%.

    Curse of the Spirits (Shaman Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank makes this less resistable and slightly boosts its damage over time.

    Prophet's Gift of the Ruchu (Shaman Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further improves the chance to perform a critical hit with all skills by an additional 1% per rank. Furthermore, it also further improves heal over time beyond 500 points per tick.

    Rage of Tallon (Warrior Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the Warrior's dexterity beyond 40 and even grants Heroic Dexterity. Furthermore, every rank also improves migration armor class beyond 12 points)

    Rage of Vallon (Warrior Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the fire proc damage beyond 100 points. Furthermore, it also further increases the amount of hate the Warrior can rack up beyond 500 points. This effect only applies while wielding one handed weapons.

    Rage of Zek (Warrior Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the fire proc damage beyond 175 points. Furthermore, it also increases the amount of hate the Warrior can rack up beyond 500 points. This effect only applies while wielding two handed weapons.

    Kreljnok's Fury (Warrior Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further increases hit points and max hit points beyond 800 points per rank.

    Rage of the Dragon (Warrior Epic 2.0 AA): This allows the Warrior to gain benefit from the same 18% aggro modifier for any weapon the Warrior oneself wields.

    Barrier of Force (Wizard Epic 1.0 AA): Every rank further increases the damage absorbing effect the barrier can take beyond 797 points of physical and magical damage. Furthermore, it also further improves the mana regen beyond 3 points.

    Sorcerer's Guard of Perception (Wizard Epic 2.0 AA): Every rank further deceases the likehood of spells being resisted by an additional 0.5% per rank for the whole group.

    I knew this is quite the number of ideas in the making and Epics do have a place in EverQuest since the day the Paladin Epic quest first came to being. I figured now is the moment to bring these ideas up.
    Toruch Fleshrot likes this.
  5. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Please no. The epic effects are horribly out of balance and extending the same effects through further ranks will just unbalance classes even more. (Usually) special things that Verant/Sony/DBG planned over the years only work at the levels they entered the game...and either they fail completely at higher levels or become so overpowering that a class will continue to use a weapon 15 years old...

    Even class specific weapons are unbalanced because IT IS HARD to make 16 versions of something and have the same relative power. And given statements by the devs on other things in EQ, you severely underestimate the time involved for a project like that.

    Like it or not, we're probably stuck with the level of dev involvement for new content/abilities/spells/etc. for the foreseeable future. For the last expansion, which was not a level increase, we got zero new aa lines and zero new spell lines. And from dev statements, it was very clear that there was a tradeoff between new content vs new spells/aas. Projects like the Faction window, which people had requested over the years, meant less content (something I think people would have rejected had they had a vote).

    The next expansion should be already behind due to GMM anniversary content. If there is a level increase (which is a distinct possibility), that's more built-in things required to do without anything new. If there isn't an increase, I'm not sure the player base will accept another expansion with no new aa/spell lines. Even if new epic or epic aas were the greatest of ideas, I'm not sure where the time is to plan and implement them.

    The epics were great because of the journey and the differences of the journey that made each one unique. I'm all for more types of quests in EQ. But it's time to but epics to bed once and for all.
  6. Repthor Augur

    Im not that in to epics myself . I did like the way we got special class weapon clicks/ proc from the RoF expasion. It dosent have to be this massive power curve just something clearly for said class. For me atleast im happy with a special proc that says warrior for example
    Whulfgar likes this.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Epics are only going to be epics if they come at the end of a long, detailed and class-specific journey. Warriors have to craft the baddest sword, rangers have to go protect the lands, berserkers have to get... like really mad, and then they get a boon.

    If DBG isn't willing to spend the massive amount of designer time to implement this for the horde of classes EQ has, they shouldn't try an epic 3.0. And they really don't have the budget to do so.

    That being said, we get the epics in a sort of form with the chase items that Ngreth comes out, get the class specific stuff in the BPs, and most expansions come with new class specific AAs.
    Alarya likes this.
  8. Tolzol Augur

    Screw it put the achievement window to work. Make class specific weapons and just have them upgrade for each expansion you finish all the achievements for, obviously with the big upgrades coming from most recent expansions. Then don’t need to make a bunch of weapons every expansion just one per class moving forward. (Well possibly two per i guess for maybe a raid vs. group level one so never mind that would take to much time). Having to do ALL achievements to have best weapon seems pretty epic/time consuming and would give me a reason to do all the old achievements lol. (Obviously a joke but would make me actually want to go do all that stuff)
    Tour likes this.
  9. Cleaver Augur

  10. Cleaver Augur

    Except they would have to still make the new version of each weapon upgrade. Creating 10 times as much work because you need multiple versions of each weapon for each class.
  11. Derka Power Ranger

    What about just a multiplier that follows the current expansion's formula for gear upgrades. Say damage, HME x 1.2 or something that applies upon a certain completed achievement.
  12. Tolzol Augur

    As i said at end of my post, obviously a joke lol. Especially taking into account hybrids/tanks/melee use multiple weapons.
  13. Morthakia Augur

    I believe that the BEST way to cost-effectively deliver a mountain of content to the all players (including hardcore ones who consume content the fastest) is to tie meaningful rewards to the achievements. I think there should be an AA line, applicable to all classes, that increases based on achievement points. Set target thresholds if you’d like. Make it similar to the Hero’s AA line.

    Reach 5,000 achievement points, +75 to attack, +75ac, +1000 H/M/E, 0.5% increase to spell damage/healing, etc.
    10,000 achievement points is +200 atk, +200ac, +2500 H/M/E.

    Increase the reward as you get closer to max achievement points (which is what, about 45,000?)? If you have 45,000 achievement points, you get the biggest boost of something such as +1,500 atk, 2000ac, 25000 H/M/E, 10% spell/healing multiplier, etc.

    There are a lot of really easy achievements to get that can set the hook (travelers, leveling up, basic tradeskills, etc.). They become increasingly more challenging as you get to the upper levels where you might be spending 100 hours farming mats to take your research from 340 to 350, which is worth just a minuscule 10 achievement points.

    This basically turns the entire 20 years of expansions into “applicable” content — available to all levels and useful on a perpetual basis. I can’t imagine a bigger return on development time.
  14. IblisTheMage Augur

    You could make it formulaic, and write code to do it. Create an item level...
  15. Suffer Journeyman

    Screw a new or updated epic. Give us a Artisan's Prize type class specific weapon aug that we can drag with us thru multiple expansions. RoF weapons were super cool and i appreciate the effort Devs. Just sucks that all that work was rendered useless a year after you guys did it.
  16. Tarvas Augur

    The only thing they need to do with epics is make the necro's an AA that is achievement based so they can use a primary other than one that came out in 2005.
  17. Arraden Augur

    long-story-arc quests are very much wanted !
    Doesn't have to be weapons though...

    The artisan prize is brilliant as a quest line and as a reward output
  18. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Epics are done. No more.

    I wouldn't mind a quest to turn the epic 2.0 EFFECT into an AA or permanent buff.
  19. Cleaver Augur

    And ever version of that item level for that item would need to be entered and created and added to the games item database. Talking a few dozens items per class maybe more maybe hundreds over time per class.

    Now if we really wanted this we would suggest removing all weapons from any new expansion and just going with class specific ones from now on and not give people the choice of what they want to use.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  20. Fluid Augur

    Some stuff, like focus items, have made old quests obsolete. It is DB game, they dropped the dime, they get to make the call. I am about as far outside of being an insider as you can get. I'd guess the current revenue stream logic is get you to subscribe so you can pick up focus with your bag of pp off the PoK vendor. I keep a lot of old stuff around for laughs. I am perfectly happy to just buy focus items with Minion of Darkness type effects on them in PoK. Not to say I don't quest more then is healthy! Just when you are on your 25th alternate, do you really want to quest yet again.

    So you add some juice to existing items. I am all for it. Problem is, what do you do with those 4k-6k pp focus jewelry you can buy? Take them off the vendor?

    Playing TLP servers was fun. I mean it was a blast grabbing Minotaur Battle Axes and SSY. I think we could have a path to phat lewt based on the old epics and quests, I'm just not sure how it could be implemented on live. Pet classes in general are strong enough. Found a bow for my Ranger twink almost by accident. I was wandering around different zones killing everything that conned below dubious and dropped a named who dropped a pretty decent bow.

    Somehow it has to be tied to revenue to stand a chance. i.e. make new items prestige/gold only and require old items. I mean if they sent out a letter saying your account that hasn't been used in 15 ears may hit the Krono lottery, maybe DB would get a few more bucks. Kind of mind boggling to figure out something that doesn't take a couple of million of dollars in programming effort.

    I'm guessing a lot of stuff like f2p, free AAs, better mercs, et al has increased DB bottom line. Any change has to be that kind of great. Bottom line may be completely independent of what I think would be great.