Anyone else wishing for something different?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by NoxiousBaleful, Apr 10, 2022.

  1. Trox2010 Augur

    I would like to see random group loot (can keep raid loot on their respective Raid Bosses), but no free trade; that could make things fun.
  2. Indigo_Quarmite Elder


    It doesn't matter what you or I think about individually about a server. This game is about the collective. The game is reliant on a large player base. Small pop servers die. I'm glad you will have fun. But it won't be a large server which is required for a server to be a success. I mean people were excited about the heroic server that they tried where you start at lvl 85. It didn't amount to anything. It's just a waste of a 12 month cycle when something better could have been made.

    The lone exception is Agnarr as a small size niche server that will actually live forever.
    Xanathol likes this.
  3. Rebelicious Augur

    Are you comparing a Mangler clone and a Bst/Bzk start server with heroic start, which was basically a free test server where players could try out any class? Why would either fail any more than any other server? Oh wait... the most vocal critics are these: 1. those who want pvp... and they are sadly a tiny niche.. 2. those who want another repeat free trade,,, why? for the same reason as... 3. those who want no truebox at all... so they can monetize the new TLP as they're life's bread and butter.

    While either server may be "underwhelming" to some... how is it really different than any other set of TLPs? Agnarr was great. Coirnav was great. Mangler was great. Aradune was great. I mean, we keep playing the same damn game and it runs about a 12 month cycle of life. The rule-sets don't really make or break anything... some are more convenient than others. I for one am over-the-moon that we don't have to wait until server near death to get to later expacs... for the first time since TLP became a thing.
    sadre likes this.
  4. Haldi Elder

    Haak how does it diminish the hard work that people put in? If people are so proud of their gear that they accomplished, then they don't have to sell it. Free trade allows for a longer lasting server because old loot usually gets handed down to newcomers or alts. It allows players to either work hard via farming plat to buy said item if they don't have time to raid, it allows for better progression and catch up vs getting plvled or left behind because they cannot find a group anymore. Free trade is a tried and true mechanic for EQ. the randomness was fun and I don't promote that, but it was unique for sure.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I think a "Trilogy" Start woulda been good, Classic+Kunark+Velious, then you get a ton of zones to level in that you normally don't get.

    If they wanted to have BST & BER in at the start of a classic server they could untie them from their expansions, but they do not want to.

    The devs see them (and other race/class options) as being "expansion content" as important to the identity of their respective expansions as the zones, quests, AA & Tradeskill recipes in them.

    They could change their ideological stance on that at some point but I don't see that happening any time soon so for now at least this is 100% a design choice they have made.

    After all, when Ragefire launched you could make a Halfling Ranger, Gnome Paladin etc. the dev team then retroactively tied those to Luclin, meaning no new ones could be created on Ragefire until Luclin opened, fortunately those players who already had them got to keep them.
    They then removed the Plane of Fear drops for BST & BER and made them so they only dropped when their expansions unlocked - by which time that gear was utterly pointless /shrug.

    It is for all those above reasons I felt that a GoD-start was the way to go, and the only way (beside a later start of an all expansions open LLP) BST/BER at the start fo a server was ever going to happen. And Miragul, yeah I actually gave that a go but the Truebox on it killed its appeal so pretty much all but 1 guild died within a month.
    Zinth and Digler like this.
  6. Digler Elder


    I've never really understood the logic of no BST or BER on classic servers. I've also never really understood why they don't open up more of the race/class tree in classic. The races are there. The classes are there. If at somepoint in the EQ time line I can roll a hafling ranger, why not let me do in Classic?

    I get there is some coding involved with the BST and BER, and work sucks. But this something that everyone would be in favor of, or atleast 85% of the population. If done, it could then be applied to every new TLP!

    As for doing the Trilogy launch, I'd much rather they simply launch at PoP. It would allow for BST, at a minimum for that crowd.

    Also, having PoK available would be very nice on a server launch.

    I'm a little torn with Vaniki. I really like the idea of accelerated content. However, all I really want is to accelerate past through PoP, then do a 'normal 3 month' unlock.

    I get that people want to experience the classic trilogy stuff. But Jesus, three months each of Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin, and Pop??

    I feel like with Vaniki, they're trying to get too cute with it. I'm not sure they realize it'll end up being a try-hard server like Selos. Selos was originally intended to be for casuals, so they could easily blow through the content, and experience the whole game! Haha, funny how that worked out. I think Vaniki is going to be the same thing.

    With a PoP launch, they could even do a level lock component for the first few months. Lock it to 50, then open to 60 in 30 days, then 65 in 30 days. Somehow fix the Code for all fun lewts everyone wants out of classic (DE Mask, CoS, Fungi Stick, etc) so those things drop for the first 60 or days or something. Or perhaps make those items questable and keep them in game forever. It sounds silly, but I feel like half the reason people want a Classic style launch is so they can get those items. Are those items really that OP, that they can't simply make them questable, and keep them around forever? I bet that would shut up half the crowd saying "I only want a classic launch, and I want it for 3 months, and Kunark for 3 months too!"

    Maybe say 120 days after launch they start to unlock the successive expansions to give people time to farm PoP. So, 4 months after launch we're post-PoP.

    Sad thing, they'll never be able to make everyone happy.

    I'm fearful that with Vaniki, DBG feels like they are trying to placate the crowd (like me) saying they can't handle a classic style launch with 3 month timers, cause its so damn boring for us.

    However, Vaniki is too tricked up to really work. It won't work or be popular, and then DBG will think the reason is because they by-passed classic with the launch, rather than it has massively accelerated content.

    edit: apologies for the typos.
    Cloudous likes this.
  7. Rhaz New Member

    I was really hoping for just a GoD start TLP, and everything else just normal. I am afraid they might be flipping too many different switches on one server. Level locking would be fine at normal max levels for the regular expansion unlock schedule. Setting weird level lock schedules, having a super fast unlock schedule, and adding the unnamed achievements for doing content above your level just seems like throwing a bunch of stuff out and hoping some of it is ok.

    It would have just been nice to have more low level exp zones, access to low level spells that no one ever uses when they are in era, and allowing everyone to at least play the class they want (if not race, but can always race change to Drakkin later if you really want).
    Digler and Ariana like this.
  8. Fhiele Augur

    I remember back in 1999, my buddy sold a gigantic zweihander for $100 on ebay. He was so thrilled. And I was like "People pay real money....for fake items? Like giving the dungeon master a pizza for a +1 sword?" Yeah, RMT has always been around and will always be around. You are right.
  9. Umul Augur


    Don't underestimate the value of them relaxing truebox. I think THAT is something we've all been asking for forever. The fact they set a precedent makes me smile.

    If I could have spun up a few toons without plugging in extra laptops (gross).. I would have stayed on Mangler longer /shrug.
  10. Zinth Augur

    the idea I saw with a LEVEL LOCKED SERVER was that everything was open and then we got levels released at 50-60-65-70-75 etc. etc. at set intervals

    they changed it to start at 40... I can live with that, it brings a challenge (albeit not a huge one) to the old dragons and such and so ppl doesn't just rush past everything.

    they changed it to start at GoD instead of ALL expansions... I can live with that and it makes sense, having TSS open at launch would have made the first 50 (now 40) levels ridiculously easy. so I can actually agree with this "change" from the original wish from Skuz with a level locked server.

    I see it as a heavy duty challenge server, it's incredibly fast and I didn't notice any "loot drop rate" notes so unless they double the loot or more, then it will be insanely hard. Also the amount of expansions unlocked each level range can be overwhelming (lvl 70 expansions especially) and I can fear we "skip" too much of it, which makes me lean more towards Yelniak, because I would like to really "go through" the expansions I missed on Phinny (Underfoot, House of Thule, Veil of Alaris and Rain of Fear) I went halfheathedly through em when I was overlevelled to em and it just isn't the same as when they are current. so yeah mostly undecided but the level locked one is intriquing for sure and the one I lean most towards... time will tell.

    I like free trade but don't "need" it, it would be nice but can go without it.
    I would definetly prefer "relaxed truebox" instead of truebox, I hate needing to have multiple machines just to play my boxes... especially now power prices have doubled due to the war in Ukraine and everything else is more expensive too... a start with relaxed truebox would be MUCH prefered... and all those RMT botters don't care if it is truebox or not but us normal players do. and all the nobox ppl will shout at this... but see what all their "truebox" stuff brought with em... RMT botters is still a huge issue... so it doesn't solve the issue but it DOES hurt the normal players that box 1-2
  11. trainz Journeyman

    2x drop rates for Yelinak and it’s perfect. Please look at this devs
  12. sadre Elder

    I tried to think of ez changes code-wise. I came up with the Retire or Die Trying server:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/the-retire-or-die-trying-server.281702/

    and, the Pepsi Crystal server:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/pepsi-crystal-server.281822/

    Both ideas, naturally, were popular as a lead balloon.

    But the posters saying "too niche" basically have the answer. This is not a flexible game, due to the need for ... exactly what it is right now.

    RIGHT. Here and Now.
  13. Haak Augur


    I think perhaps you're focusing on the wrong thing here. You're locked into the perspective of the person who prioritizes the benefits of free trade, which as I said there's a case for (and you pointed it out). What you aren't taking into account is the psychology of players who are motivated by other needs or desires.

    You can refer to Bartle's taxonomy of player types for more information, but it's simplified as thus: there are four types of players, motivated by different needs. One type is the achiever, who in a multiplayer environment seeks praise and exceptionalism through accomplishment. In some games this comes in the form of achievements or badges that demonstrate what they've accomplished; in MMOs like EQ it's often gear. Under normal server rules that need can be fulfilled fairly easily: they put in the time to raid, and they end up with exclusive gear to show off to prove it. However, under free trade a player who did not put in the effort can end up equally or better geared quite easily, thus negating any sense of accomplishment, and frustrating the achiever. When everyone is running around BiS, then nobody is exceptional.

    So what we see in this debate over free-trade-or-not is an issue of the psychology behind why a portion of the community even wants to play in the first place. Both sides have valid reasons to feel the way that they feel, so the best alternative is to offer some servers with free trade enabled (like Mischief) and others without it (like Yelinak) so players of all types have an option that suites them.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I agree with you, said the following in a different thread but applies here too:

    I think the "Era un-Locking" Vaniki is using can be fine but the speed it unlocks at is furious.

    if I have one big reservation is that the devs see this server not getting a really big crowd & then drawing the conclusion that a GoD-Start or Level-Locking don't work because that would be a huge misunderstanding.
    Unlocks applied as I originally suggested and the server would be nowehere near an aggressive as Vaniiki is going to be.

    All that said, Vaniki will be fun if you can go into it open-minded, I just hope enough EU players give it a try or I won't actually get to raid on it anyway.
  15. sadre Elder

    plat ruby veils, 15 bucks. ebay. sold like 5. then the nerf Kaiju came for ebaying.