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Any classes still not happy on Live at 125?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Cicelee, Jul 17, 2024.

  1. Fenthen Well, that's that...

    Clerics have been in a sad state for numerous years. I'm fortunate to have a few that actually like playing clerics, because my love died long, long ago.
  2. Randomized Augur

    So because you struggle to form groups, you think the devs need to make every class able to solo just fine (with and without mercs) and turn it into more of a single player game than it already is, and that is what will make players happy with their classes?

    Whats next? Allow mercs into raids and scale them down to 6 players so you can box raids in era without anyone else?

    Come on man...

    With as popular and easy as boxing had become over the years, and the average EQ player being pretty bad at the game, there hasn't a lot of incentive to group outside of your own PC. And I think we're too established as is with boxing for that to change, but trying to find or create incentives to do so would be fantastic.

    Now as far as classes in a vacuum, yes having the ability to solo/molo is nice. Playing the entire game as such is miserable though (YMMV everyone is different).

    I like my Druid. He's versatile. I get buffs, I can solo/molo well enough, I'm a nice addition to groups via (a)dps. In a progression group my dps and utility is awesome. But mana struggles. For healing in a progression group, I struggle to keep up due to lack of healing power. In fast groups, healing isn't an issue as mobs don't live long enough to outpace my healing, but mana regen is still an issue.

    There's been multiple suggestions to fix both those issues..I'd take either one and that would make me happy with a Druid. I don't want things to be WoW easy. I want more variance and group desirability
  3. Vumad Cape Wearer


    TLDR answer: Pet classes and tanks

    The game is built on the trinity, or as I say, the tetrahedron. Tanks, DPS, healing and Support. The classes that solo or molo the best are the classes that cover the most (or all) of the tetrahedron the best. The classes that do this the best are BST, MAG, NEC, PAL, SHD, WAR (with a merc).

    Second rate at solo (often they need to molo) are classes that either don't tank well or don't DPS well, SHM, ROG, RNG, ZER, MNK, hybrids/melee.

    The classes that are bad at soloing can't cover enough of the tetrahedron even with a merc, CLR (no DPS/Support), Dru (poor healing/tanking depending on the merc), ENC (charm sucks), WIZ (would need 2 mercs). Yes, they can solo in the right circumstances, but generally, it's just not worth it.

    But the game can't be tuned based on solo ability. WIZ will never be able to compete with a NEC in soloing unless they want to give certain classes 2for1 mercs. Even then, a WIZ would still struggle because they have no ability to slow or pull (support). WIZ is simply a raid/group class. There's nothing the Devs can do to fix this, except stop nerfing kiting with summon, of course, but even then, NEC will still out perform them because they have more options in where and how to solo..
    Metanis, menown and fransisco like this.
  4. Tallie Elder

    I think the problem is more that the ability to solo is spread out so unevenly. That can lead to a lot of frustration.

    For many classes, when a group is not available they can go solo. Others, not so much.
    Fenthen likes this.
  5. Randomized Augur

    But isn't this true about all aspects?
    Some classes can truly solo. Others not so much
    Some classes can truly tank. Others not so much
    Healing
    Utility
    Support
    Pulling

    You get the idea. Pros and cons to everything. Gotta pick your poison
  6. fransisco Augur

    there seems to be this idea that soloing is required in the game. Even if you can solo, its always better not to solo
  7. The real Sandaormo Augur

    I heard a Warrior killed a Blue con without a Merc once. There is no video of this so its hard to prove.
    Metanis and Flatchy like this.
  8. p2aa Augur

    Warrior being in the top tier of soloing classes ? Is that a joke ?

    Even with warrior using a merc, Rangers and Shamans solo much better than warrior. Monk solo better than a warrior too. And druids / chanters / wizards also solo much faster than a warrior. Why ?

    First, warrior DPS solo on his own is lower than most other classes, because this class is one of the most dependant to ADPS to produce numbers. Sure we can burn massively on one mob, but then it's over for a long time. Warrior best DPS discs are very long reuse time (15-20 min).

    Secondly, warrior has 0 utility in group content, compared to most other classes, to split mob / pull stuff for example. Yes, they can take some hits as being a tank class (so better solo than rogue or zerker), but when it takes you forever to split / pull stuff, then kill mobs lol. Warrior is at the bottom tier of your solo class.
  9. Tyrion Journeyman

    Are you sure you are playing warrior right? First off they have a dps disc that has like a 3 minute cool dowm and last 2 minutes.

    All you do is equip the two warrior only 1 handers and auto attack are your DPS is going to rival or beat other similar geared melee.

    Warriors can Molo way better than a monk or zerkers, because they can't molo.

    Maybe you are referring to warriors on TLP and not live. They loose on DPS during burns but that's about it.
    WeCameWeConquered likes this.
  10. p2aa Augur

    No, i'm referring to Live.

    A disc that makes you taking 35 % more damage and makes you at risk of dieing with bad healing ? You take a bad round tanking multiple mobs that you were unable to split, and you die, contrary to most other classes who have utility / stuff to counterpart these situations (heal, pet, snare, mez, etc...).

    Still, it makes no difference on your soloing kill rate, that will be painfully slow.

    Monks are largely better than warriors when soloing, when they can can split / pull mobs at will. I'm waiting for your guide on how to split / pull bunch of mobs in group content with a warrior, every pull.

    Btw, I'm fine that warriors suck at soloing, they have others strenghts, but I just had to react on someone putting warriors at the top list of soloers lol.
  11. Randomized Augur

    I like hiw we are now judging the merit of a class based on their auto attack lol

    1999 going hard in here
    fransisco likes this.
  12. fransisco Augur

    Totally agree. Not sure what this solo thing is about. I have a hard time believing p2aa even plays on live if he is concerned about which classes can solo well and how that is fair/balanced.
  13. Cadira Augur

    @p2aa

    I think warriors are the only tank class that has significant utility for their group (imperators command) lol. I guess sks got epic and some small mana return and pallies can....heal (like the real healer you'd prob have with you).

    And idk why you think warriors are "more dependant on adps than other classes" that's pretty much equal for all classes...if anything, they're less dependant being at max crit rate and dont need the benefit from a few adps abilities that provide that kind of thing.

    But I agree soloing as a war is not good enough to claim they're a solo class. Well, it's not something you can even have an opinion on cause it's simply a mathematical fact, granted there are warriors that molo a lot of stuff "cause they can and or want to". Looking at you, Rune, in roi!

    Idk why people bring up soloing as an argument for anything though. It's not even meant to be a part of the game. It does show the creative way people can play some classes, and does have some merit in the question of "how powerful is this class?" But it's not like you're meant to do literally any current content solo.
    fransisco likes this.
  14. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    It’s the default activity in the game. You don’t log-in to a group. EQ has and always will be one of the worst games for grouping. Content design, class design, reward structures are all contrary to promoting a group environment.
  15. Cicelee Augur

    IMHO the reason why solo ability/capability is at the forefront of so many players is due to the lack of available groups for the player in 2024. And there is a myriad of reasons for that- lower server population, mercs, boxers, cliques, agendas not aligning with your agenda, talent/skill, ability to accomplish tasks w/o others, etc.

    In 2000, I could put on LFG or say in a channel "level xx magician LFG" and I would be grouped within 5-10 minutes. In 2024, I could go a week doing the same thing and not have a group. Pick up groups are just rare nowadays. So if your only option to group is your clique, and they are not online... then what so you do? Log off? Sit around and wait? If you could solo, you could do some things and still feel like you accomplished something.

    That is why solo ability is on many minds. It isn't on the mind of the six person clique group who only logs in when the other five members also log in. It isn't on the minds of the six boxer. But it sure is on everyone else.
  16. Cadira Augur

    I mean I get it, and I think the devs have tried to alleviate these issues (probably not as good as they should) but I don't think they REALLY design content, spells etc with soloing in mind, cause that's not the point of the game.

    If eq has lost it's ability to hold true the fact that it's a highly collaborative RPG, than maybe instead of it being more focused on solo play it should just die out, lol. Obviously that's a dumb solution but.....ugh.
  17. Tuco Augur

    SK's group mana return is significant. Between Soul Flay, Vicious Bite of Chaos and Charka's Bite, it's competitive with bards and enchanters. I've always thought that shadowknights are the ultimate selfish class and those group mana buffs should actually be group mana draws, and the SK's lich sting epic should draw life from the group.

    The Paladin's healing shouldn't be discounted, it enables a group in many situations and group armor of the inquisitor is extremely good.

    That being said, the fact that live EQ is extremely trivial reduces the value added from mana regen (since mana is cheap for most classes) and healing (since there is no significant group damage). This is one (of several) reasons why the immense healing provided by a cleric is largely irrelevant.
  18. Randomized Augur

    Eh if people were more proactive than simply "LFG" in general chat, it would go a long ways. Purely anecdotal, but true for both higher population and lower population servers: when ive just done the "LFG", I don't get many hits. But when I lay out a floor plan, more often then not I get a hit.

    110 BST LFG
    vs
    Gonna knock out <links ToV GD merc quest achievement> if anyone wants to join

    I've watched groups form for specific Hunters in zones, for LS missions. And the times I see people not get groups is when they're lazy about it and just go 110 BST LFG (myself included)
    fransisco likes this.
  19. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    You basically proved the point about Soloing though. You're starting with a Beastlord, which can solo the content on its own. It makes it much easier to build a group in that situation. It's so much easier to fill out a group, when the group can already function.
  20. Randomized Augur

    Any 2 players can form a fully functioning group with Mercenaries though. I just mentioned Beastlord because that's what I'm currently playing.

    2 players = fully functioning group for 16 years now. So that argument falls short.
    fransisco likes this.