Fixed Internally Anticipated Intercession/Promised Interposition Issue

There's a potential problem with the new Promised Interposition AA introduced with the TBM expansion and the Anticipated Intercession/Anticipated Interposition spells. This has been reported (I know I did on Beta and when I asked a friend to help test it again recently), but I thought I should post in case others didn't know.

[49513/49511] Promised Interposition III (appears in song window when a spell from the "Promised" line of spells is cast)
Classes: CLR/254
Skill: Melee
Target: Single
Range: 1000'
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: No
Stacking: Promised Interposition 3
Focusable: No
Casting: 0s
Duration: 18s (3 ticks) Song, Extendable: No, Dispelable: Yes
1: Cast: Promised Interposition Heal III if 15000 Melee Damage Taken in Single Hit
2: Cast: Promised Interposition Heal III if 15000 Spell Damage Taken in Single Hit
A protective barrier forms around you that will heal you should you take spell or melee damage that does at least $1 points of damage.

[49029/4669] Anticipated Intercession (appears in buff window)
Classes: CLR/102
Skill: Abjuration
Mana: 1296
Target: Single
Range: 100'
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
Focusable: Yes
Casting: 7s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 5m (50 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: No
1: Cast: Anticipated Healing if 22500 Melee Damage Taken in Single Hit
2: Buff Blocker A (40)
Text: You quicken your reflexes.
Places a ward upon your target that will heal them if they absorb a melee strike larger than $1 hit points.

Both of these are supposed to proc a heal after the target sustains a certain amount of damage (15000 for PI and 22500 for the newest version of AI) in a single hit. I think most of us assumed that the heal would land after the hit, providing a near-instant heal after the damage threshold is reached, but in looking at the logs that does not seem to be happening. PI has been behaving like this since Beta, but I never tested AI so I don't know if it ever worked differently.

The 'Promised Interposition Heal III' proc is landing before the damage that triggers it according to my logs (dueled my monk friend Qulas who was able to damage me enough in one blow to test):

[Sun Apr 24 23:33:59 2016] Clarisaa -> Qulas: ready
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] You resist the Force of Corruption XIV spell!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Qulas is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:00 2016] Qulas crushes YOU for 6180 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:03 2016] Qulas's muscles bulge with the force of will.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:04 2016] Qulas embraces the dual nature of eternity.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:04 2016] Qulas embraces the dual nature of eternity.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:06 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:06 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:06 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:06 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:09 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:09 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:11 2016] Qulas tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:11 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:11 2016] Qulas tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:11 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:11 2016] Qulas tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:13 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:13 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:13 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:13 2016] Qulas is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:13 2016] Qulas crushes YOU for 6586 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Qulas tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Qulas is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] You perform an exceptional heal! (21654) (<- PI heal)
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] You have healed Clarisaa for 11671 points.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Your promised interposition is fulfilled. You have been healed for 21654 points.
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Qulas crushes YOU for 15146 points of damage. (<- triggering blow?)
[Sun Apr 24 23:34:17 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!

Qulas was supposed to stop after he failed to proc the heal on the first hit, but this ended up being a useful test because it proves the heal isn't proc'ing from any damage hit. I got some healing because his smaller hits damaged me enough to receive the heal.

[Sun Apr 24 23:35:01 2016] Clarisaa -> Qulas: ready
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:04 2016] You resist the Zalikor's Fang Rk. III spell!
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:08 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:08 2016] Qulas is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:08 2016] Your promised interposition is fulfilled. You have been healed for 10827 points. (<- PI heal)
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:08 2016] Qulas crushes YOU for 33696 points of damage. (<- triggering blow?)
[Sun Apr 24 23:35:08 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!


I was at full health here, so I didn't get the heal before receiving the damage.

[Sun Apr 24 23:43:16 2016] You tell your party, 'ready'
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] Your opponent strikes through your defenses!
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] Qulas is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] You perform an exceptional heal! (21654) (<- PI heal)
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] You have healed Clarisaa for 21654 points.
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] Your promised interposition is fulfilled. You have been healed for 21654 points.
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] Qulas punches YOU for 23229 points of damage. (<- triggering blow?)
[Sun Apr 24 23:43:28 2016] A shock wave shivers through your body. You have taken 3519 points of damage.

This time, I did not heal before Qulas hit me again (was at 70% or so), so I did get the heal, which raised my health enough so his blow didn't hit me for as much as it could have. Well, it technically did hit me for full damage but it gave me health before so the net damage was lowered...

The same thing seems to be happening with 'Anticipated Healing' (dueled my rogue friend Bahdah who was able to backstab me for enough damage):

[Mon May 02 14:01:23 2016] Bahdah is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Mon May 02 14:01:23 2016] Bahdah backstabs YOU for 3787 points of damage.
[Mon May 02 14:01:23 2016] Bahdah is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Mon May 02 14:01:23 2016] Bahdah backstabs YOU for 12515 points of damage.
[Mon May 02 14:01:23 2016] Bahdah tries to backstab YOU, but misses!
[Mon May 02 14:01:25 2016] You have been healed for 8500 hit points by your Copious Healing XXXV.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] You begin casting Spiritual Remedy Rk. III.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] Your Scaled Ring of Emollious flickers with a pale light.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] Your Salus Faycite Shard: Spiritual Remedy feels alive with power.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] Your Star of Divine Tribulation feels alive with power.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] Bahdah's wounds fade.
[Mon May 02 14:01:30 2016] Bahdah is covered in a soft healing light.
[Mon May 02 14:01:31 2016] You have been healed for 7325 hit points by your Copious Healing XXXV.
[Mon May 02 14:01:33 2016] Bahdah is pierced by YOUR thorns for 97 points of non-melee damage.
[Mon May 02 14:01:33 2016] The promise of divine reformation is fulfilled. You have been healed for 34681 points. (<- AI heal)
[Mon May 02 14:01:33 2016] Bahdah backstabs YOU for 26489 points of damage. (<- triggering blow?)
[Mon May 02 14:01:33 2016] Bahdah tries to backstab YOU, but misses!

I was at full health here, so I didn't get the heal before receiving the damage.

The result of this is that both PI/AI may not provide any healing unless the target is low enough on health (probably 90% or below) to receive the proc heal. If this is the case, it might actually be beneficial in the extremely rare instance that PI/AI is on the target at 10% health and they receive a blow large enough to proc the heal because the heal landing before the damage gives them the health they would not have had otherwise to sustain the blow (unless the game considers them dead and doesn't give them the proc heal -- I did not have Qulas or Bahdah hit me at 10% to test this though ).

Most of the time, though, PI/AI are cast preemptively before damage is anticipated and when the target is at or near full health. The 3.5 sec cast time of AI is too long to cast it when the target is actually taking damage (unless the raid/heal leader is assigning a cleric to keep it on the target and they prioritize it regardless of the target's current health) and despite the 0.8 sec PR cast time, most clerics who use PR for the PI proc aren't going to cast it when a target is at low health.

PI/AI heals may still land if the target sustains a few smaller blows before the blow that triggers them, but the PI threshold is so low (and spell damage can trigger it as well as melee) that the first or second blow from a non-wimpy raid mob or minor AOE will almost always proc it and even if takes until the third or fourth blow, the target would have to be receiving no healing to get the full effect of the PI heal (otherwise their health will be topped off often enough that their health will be too high when it procs to benefit). AI is a bit better in this regard as the damage threshold is higher and only melee damage can proc the heal, but on most targets vulnerable to large hits, it will often proc on the first hit, also.

The target still might not get the PI/AI heals even if the heal procs worked as intended if they are receiving too many heals, but if the heal procs landed after the triggering blow, the potential for them to land before most other heals (which have to be timed properly to land before a near-instant heal) would be much higher.

Assuming this is not just a log display error, I am hopeful these heal procs can be fixed to work like most of us assume they are supposed to. I did compare health before and after the procs as mentioned in the log descriptions above, and it didn't seem the damage was reduced if I was at full health (and another cleric friend tested and confirmed the same), but I did not do extensive testing on it other than noting what mine and other people's logs were recording.

I like that behavior and it means to me that it is the opposite of DI in a sense. It is usually missed healing that kills the tank, not healing after the round hits (ie getting 1 rounded), so this helps negate that behavior and is a cushion. Thanks for the info, I did not realize it was actually working in that fashion.

I'm guessing this is because of EQs order of operations.

Say a cleric has buffs Anticipated Intercession and Promised Interposition, which heals them upon a large enough hit.

When an NPC hits them, they go through the following:
Check for:
NPC chance to Double Attack/Dual Wield

- Once @ beginning of round: Defensive Proc check (Shining Bulwark proc)

For each NPC swing attempt, check player:

Riposte

Parry/Block

Dodge

Shield Block

Miss

Roll 1-20 for hit value

Subtract 1 if Warrior. More calculations using NPC ATK, STR, player AC

- Vie/Mitigation check (Shining Defense, 3rd Spire)

- Hit Absorb check (Ward of Surety)

- Rune check (i.e. Rune of Lucem)

- If Hit > 22500, Anticipated Healing (AI fire)

Heal player for 36000

- If Hit > 15000, Promised Interposition Heal (AI and PI fire simultaneously)

Heal player for 10000

- Damage Taken

- If HP < 30%, DG fire

Heal player for 79000 (not focused, + Heal Amt)

- If HP < 20%, DI fire

Heal player for 60153 (not focused)

- If HP < 0%, calculate TotD/Second Chance fire

Heal player for 40000 (not focused, + Heal Amt)

The heal from PI and AI should occur after damage is taken, otherwise it's pretty useless. Not sure it is possible to fix this, though.

Same thing Clarisa posted -



The healing should come right after damage taken, not before.

The same is true for Ward of Surety -



The heal lands before I take any damage, and doesn't do anything. Ward is like a Rune that procs a heal upon fading - except the heal happens before you take more damage.

If AI, PI and Ward were runes instead of heals, this would be fine, and they would work as intended (reducing damage by x amount). In their current form, they do nothing if the tank has full HP. They might still be useful some of the time, but it'd be really great if they could be useful (and do what they're supposed to) all of the time.

Risk of being useless at full vs risk of being useless at low? If the hit is enough to kill, then the "after" method would be pretty bad

Now if they would just reduce the cast time to something useful. I cast it sometimes before the event starts, but it's gone in just a few seconds and I don't dare cast it while the tanks are getting beat up, especially on SK's who have a habit of running out of range just before it casts.

In this case was it healing because the hit limit was reached? The heal part of Ward if I am reading it correctly has nothing to do with damage limits. It helps block X amount of damage each hit for 8 hits then after the 8th hit it heals the target for X amount.

Hmmmm, I'm wondering if it actually takes place before whatever healing you SKs' are doing to yourselves, if so, perhaps I could actually come in first on your parse for once if I keep AI on you. Yea everyone else dies, but that's ok if I beat an SK's parse.

Wont happen, least on mine! For me its all about timing, and yes it would happen before as I heal right after the round. I try and time my casting to be during when it will hit me so that I heal just after I take the dmg and have my dicho for if I get interrupted.

They need to change sk self healing to a hot.........like a really crappy hot.

Bond of the bonemaw, its how I was keeping my self up while kiting the adds last night. Well that and the heal proc from terrors.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=43597

It's the heal process, you instantly get credit for them don't you?

Not surprised but kind of disappointed that these haven't been fixed. I know it's doubtful that they will be fixed, but wanted to post an update just in case these spells/abilities are being worked on for the next expansion.

The 'Healing Ward' effect from Ward of Surety still lands before the last blow is absorbed:

[Fri Sep 09 18:25:57 2016] The ward of surety fades. <-- fake fade message
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:57 2016] Your ward heals you as it breaks! You have been healed for 53803 points. <-- healing ward effect
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:57 2016] A grand overseer is pierced by YOUR thorns for 123 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:57 2016] A grand overseer tries to hit YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow! <-- ward of surety actually fades

and the 'Promised Interposition' effect still lands before the hit that triggers it:

[Fri Sep 09 18:25:59 2016] A grand overseer is pierced by YOUR thorns for 123 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:59 2016] You have healed Clarisaa for 6235 points.
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:59 2016] Your promised interposition is fulfilled. You have been healed for 10827 points. <-- PI heal
[Fri Sep 09 18:25:59 2016] A grand overseer hits YOU for 15535 points of damage. <- triggering blow

I'm guessing Anticipated Intercession is still messed up in the same way but my grand overseer friend doesn't hit me hard enough anymore to trigger it and no one was on to duel me to test it out.

I'm pretty sure it's a bug also as the description for these abilities state (or imply at least) that the heal should be occurring after the triggering event:

Ward of Surety - 'This ward will cast a large heal on the bearer when it wears off'

Promised Interposition - 'This passive ability imbues your Promised line of spells with the ability to trigger Promised Interposition III, which will heal your target for 10000 health should they incur a melee strike or direct damage spell of at least 15000 points for 18 seconds'

Anticipated Intercession - 'Places a ward upon your target that will heal them if they absorb a melee strike larger than 22500 hit points.'

The spells/abilities still technically function, but the timing of the healing effects makes the heals not as useful for how the spells/abilities are used, particularly in the case of Promised Interposition and Anticipated Intercession, which are cast before the target takes any damage and usually (at least in a raid situation) are triggered on the first hit. As it is now, the heals on both of these are wasted unless the target is already damaged when they land.

I'd really like to see these fixed as I think damage-triggered heals like PI and AI could be a very useful tool for clerics if they worked as intended.

Would you please consider stopping by the issue tracker and posting your information there? We are seeing some traction on getting some interesting things looked at after years of being broken in some cases. I obviously can't make any promises, but it might help call attention to your cause if you post there. If we can get some up votes, I'll happily post it into my monthly report.

Thanks, I went ahead and posted it there too (also attached Sirene's screenshots since they are nicer to look at than my logs).

I know that not all clerics use PI or AI (most use Ward but not for its healing value), but triggered heals would help a lot with burst damage if they worked properly because they happen instantly and are not dependent on the timing/reaction speed of the cleric.

It was mentioned that if the heals came after the triggering event/damage that they might not land if it turns out to be a "killing blow" and the target dies, and that's true, but as most clerics are unlikely to cast PI or AI at low health levels and these spells are usually cast at full health, I think fixing them would make them more useful in most situations.

https://dgcissuetracker.com/browse/EQ-1092

If anyone interested in this issue could stop by and upvote it, it would help. I'm also linking back to this thread from the issue itself for dev review.

Cast time is still too long.

This is an old post, but a very good one. It predates the bug forums but honestly belongs there. I moved it, hopefully someday we can find time to look into this.

Beware! There be dragons there!

I'm a little curious what sparked the interest in this after 5 years.

My guess would be a TLP player just hit the same problem