Ancient Cloak of Flames (raid item) off Death Beetle

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Kelefane, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. Zeebu Journeyman

    It's pretty clear to me that it's the gear centric game that causes a lot of the negative emotions in the game world combined with the inability of individuals and small groups to empower themselves. Truthfully though I think this is partially my fault. This isn't the way I was hoping they would incentivize some of the older content but I did suggested it using a different method. At this point with the hyper inflated gear situation it's kind of like Pandora's box. It's really hard to fix the spirit of the game at this point.

    It's not to say inflation won't happen anyway. It will. I think the only reasonable way to deal with it is to put a strong emphasis on the power differential of individual stat and resistances increases. Something to consider for EQNext anyhow.
  2. Axxius Augur

    Good point! Dunno about other servers but on Povar I'm yet to see more than 1-2 groups of players in either SolB or MM who would not be members of RoF T4 raiding guilds or their alts. We already have access to the items of this quality. 1 more item makes zero difference.
  3. Kishant New Member

    atm SolB/MM on AB server is overrunned by Raidguild players who cant get in their instances cause the instanceserver(s) are broken.
  4. --Voodoo-- Augur

    Get over yourself. Not only is this nothing at all even remotely similar to anything you suggested, the idea also predates your posts by several years.
  5. Dusares New Member

    I'm usually not posting on here but this thread and the stuff that is currently happening in SolB and MM kind of got my attention.
    I am a grouper who is currently not raiding at all. I have my char in complete T4 Group Equipment and am pretty happy with the state of the group game right now.
    With the introduction of those items and the current information about the itemization in the next expansion it looks like I will probably have to keep 3 items (2x ring + 1x cloak) in 3 Slots and not change them for at least 1 , maybe 2 years!!!!
    This might sound weird but for raiders who just dont want to buy the tier3/4 raid item and stay with a cheap group item that they can keep until the next expac this is less of a game breaker than for a grouper who will have to stay with these drops for a huge timespan.
    Items that have up to 800HP Mana more than comparable items for the audience seem to be almost more imbalancing than the difference between having an epic or not having an epic ( at least for classes like wiz or war i.e.) - epics were only 10%-15% more HP at the time.
    The zones are flooded with raiders taking away every single mob(no complains here, I like raiders) and I didnt see any groupers even bothering during normal hours which is nice and ok if it wouldnt be a limited occurence of an item which is also non lore and droppable making it the absolute non plus ultra cash machine!
    Imagine the prices of this in 6 months when there is still nothing comparable for groupers...

    So you put an item with raid quality into the group game that is way more powerful than the t4 class weapons... from a lore perspective you make it drop from a random trash mob ( how do you explain that a bat is running around with naggys most precious cloak?o_O) and therefore knowingly create a big no skill needed farm rush into the zones + make it droppable and no lore to create greed and hate amongst the groupers so nobody will not roll on it if it drops (You need that cloak ? Well I need 2 millionpp, tough luck!)

    And all info and explanation given about this is: "This is intended"...

    The Cloak, the Ring and also the Raid 50 AC Aug , all break with the way that loot was distributed in EQ so far, and apart from a few individuals ( Those tanks that will be top of leaderboard as not many will get the Aug , or the few farmers that managed to farm 20 cloaks and sell them for huge amounts of pp -> Money), this will cause only frustration...

    Imagine there would be random 5k HP Mana drop from Raid Encounters in there... Raiders would go insane cause they couldnt average that out with 3,9k hp gear in the next expac!

    Quintessence: Why dont you just simply make the items 2,8k HP Mana and state clearly that CotF T1 Armor will be en par so nobody has to be scared to be damaged from this because they were on holiday for the wrong 3 weeks ...

    Sorry for the long post, but it will probably stay the only one for the next 6 yrs again! :)
  6. Tulisin_Dragonflame Augur


    This is exactly why they're trade-able though.

    The EQ community is very much into the "let us work for it" mindset the vast majority of the time, yet when confronted with something like this one popular opinion is that some people are being allowed to put in *too much* effort for their rewards (IE, the people who will farm hard and accrue 10+ cloaks/rings). Why the sudden shift from "we want rewards we can pump time and effort into" to "everyone should get the rewards and time/effort should be capped"?

    This isn't the first time EQ has had desirable items, not even the first time EQ has had them on a limited-time basis. How is this different from any other situation where the mob you want is camped?
  7. Denhbers Elder

    I was hasty with my post, I tend to get caught up in the snark of it all. Everyone accuses everyone of whining on the internet. "Whining about whining" is the official sport of the internet. The Nobel Prize should be given out to anyone with the ability to change that!

    It's nice to see some people who have played a long time, but don't get a chance to raid much, get a decent item.

    I got what I expected... 15 hours of death and chaos over a few days before I found my cloak. I think I died in every way possible.
  8. Kurayami Augur


    My favorite way to die is pulling too many mobs at once since nearly wiping every other pull boosts my cloak odds so much :p
  9. Dre. Altoholic

    How I would have done it:

    Scale - random zonewide
    Cloak - naggy raid chest
    Elricvonclief and Viltaire like this.
  10. Deloehne Augur

    I think the issue is that the quality of the group drop makes raiders show up in force for what was intended to be a group item. I've only spent about forty minutes in the zone, but while I was there it was top 4 server raid guilds pretty much exclusively. Then last night I had the joy of spending two hours sorting out "he trained - she trained" arguments between my guild and one of our close competitors.

    Frankly that sort of stuff gets old really quickly. So from my point of view if the intent was to create a chase item, then making it a raid chase item put the screws to the groupers who presumably were the intended beneficiaries. Putting such stuff in MM, in particular, caused more friction and hard feelings than I have seen in years. I don't think it was worth it. I hear SolB was much the same, but since I have the raid version (just for the clicky, by the way, it will never get equippped), I won't have to find out for myself.
  11. Stubar Augur

    I honestly this the chase item was a good idea. IMO where the mistake lies is making the item appealing to raiders.

    If it was a T1/T2 quality item (still a very nice pcs) I would wager that the zones would still be busy, just not to the extent that it is now. Both items are T4 quality, the cloak has a pretty nice click...and the ring is nothing to dismiss either. Some "high end" guild members more than likely would benefit from the upgrade, and if they are a DKP guild, they won't have to spend anything to get a top end upgrade.

    I personally haven't even stepped into SolB yet, I'm having too much fun in CMM. Do I want/need the cloak? It would be nice, however for the 1pct I'd gain on overhaste...big whoop...now if I was still in a T1/T2/T3 cloak on the other hand, it would be a different story.
  12. Recnarp Augur

    Can confirm it doesn't drop for Ogre Beastlords.
  13. TarewMarrForever Augur

    This is awesome for the game. We need more of it, but in a slightly different manner.

    Not everybody has the time to RAID (me today), nor does everybody like to RAID when they do (me of years past). On the other hand, Grouping is *awesome*, and there are many, many players that feel this way, and not just boxers.

    The only part I find questionable regarding the ACoF is that it is trade-able. But the fact that it is only dropping for a few weeks so that is tolerable to me. In fact, it brings a fun dimension to the bazaar and item selling / trading. Two nights ago a mate bought one for 5m pp. :)

    I have been a long believer that a group of 5-6 skilled friends should be able to get almost all items in the game, given enough time, dedication, and luck. Time is the key point. At any given point in time, *nothing* should be off limits other than the current top-tier raid stuff. However, even that should be added to loot tables in subsequent expansions on level-appropriate trash mobs. It may take longer, and it may take more luck, but it should be possible.

    Frankly I think more and more new content should be like this, and in particular, existing zone loot tables should be updated going all the way back. I love this concept, and as long as it is level-appropriate gear to the zone in which it is dropped, ultra-rare, a full tier behind current top-tier RAID gear for current top-level zones, and NO TRADE, then I say go for it.

    So yes this does mean you should be able to group with friends and all get current T2 gear without ever going on a raid. However, it would likely be faster to just raid in a power guild. But if that isn't your cup of tea, you should still be able to get almost the best gear in the game, or at least a few pieces of it, just through normal group adventuring.

    Given the number of zones in the world, this certainly should be possible to do, for (5) 10 level ranges and (10) 5 level ranges, without it becoming a camping problem. You may need to dupe a few items and reduce the classes that can use them in order to spread the camping load, but it is certainly doable.
  14. savrin Augur

    "Frankly I think more and more new content should be like this, and in particular, existing zone loot tables should be updated going all the way back. I love this concept, and as long as it is level-appropriate gear to the zone in which it is dropped, ultra-rare, a full tier behind current top-tier RAID gear for current top-level zones, and NO TRADE, then I say go for it."

    "So yes this does mean you should be able to group with friends and all get current T2 gear without ever going on a raid. However, it would likely be faster to just raid in a power guild. But if that isn't your cup of tea, you should still be able to get almost the best gear in the game, or at least a few pieces of it, just through normal group adventuring."

    I do not agree with this. If this happens, people will simply raid less. Anyone who does not have the time to be in a top tier guild will no longer need to raid anymore. Any raider knows this: it takes far longer to build up enough dkp to bid on things or buy with chits than to get a random drop off a group trash mob.

    Due to lockout timers, it takes much longer to get raid gear then group gear. So if raid gear was on random trash mobs. Everyone would just kill random trash mobs and get full t2+ raid gear in no time.

    Group geared players would end up with better gear faster than raiders. Which is not okay if soe wants to keep people raiding.

    The only reason I have no issues with the cloak and rings is because it is for a very limited time only. Permanent group zones should not have raid gear ever unless it is far behind current content. Okay maybe a few slots are okay but not a full set or anything game breaking like this person wants.
  15. MrGPAC Augur

    Take a zone with 100 mobs in it total. 30 minute respawn. Make it a 1 in 10,000 chance of drop. That would mean 1 in 100 complete respawns of the zone would give an item. That would mean if you cleared all mobs every instant the zone respawned, you would spend 50 hours to get one drop for one person...in a completely unrealistic situation where 100 mobs are all killed the instant they spawn.

    Assuming this goal could be done by a single group (which it couldn't), that would be 300 man hours per loot.

    Now, compare that to raiding, where it takes maybe...1 hour including forming up, strat, etc. minutes to kill an event with 4-7 guaranteed pieces of loot, + enough currency on 54 raiders to buy ~3 pieces of loot. Thats 7-10 pieces of loot per raid event (not even counting spells).

    For that time translates to ~ 8 loots per 54 man hours, or 1 loot per ~8 man hours.

    How is 1 loot per ~8 man hours equivalent to 1 loot per 300 man hours? Raiding would STILL be a FAR more efficient way to gear up...PLUS it would allow you to get even better gear. Hell, if this were T1 raid quality, or even a smidgen below it, it would still be awesome...

    ~MrGPAC
  16. Falos Augur

    I don't see any problem with this, it takes more effort and skill to 100 percent group content than it does to finish raid content.

    Not saying raid content is trivial, but you'll find far more people with all the raid content done than with all the group content done.
  17. Trajet D'Or Augur

    Only 40 or so people have all raid content done. Decent chance there are 3-4 people per server with all group content done.
  18. FVRules Journeyman

    Sad but true. Im a few missions away from completing it. With HH and new expac, it will have to wait.
  19. FVRules Journeyman

    Excluding FnF and SoA. May not be that low, but I'd have to guess pretty low on our server, T.
  20. Nyni New Member

    This item kind of erks me is the Naggy Raid drop Cloak ( Mighty Cloak of Flames) has less stats but the same click effect and focus effect as the Ancient Cloak of Flames that drops off any mob in the Open area of Naggy/s Lair. Yes it Attunable which the Raid dropped Cloak is not and yes it is also equivalent to the T4 RoF cloaks. I mean sure the chances of it dropping is 1/1000 but gees the Reason People raid is not just for fun but also to improve their character(s) to the highest standard as possible. If People want raid drops go raid and earn the stuff for pete's sake.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.