An honest discussion: zone latency.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Daegun, May 11, 2013.

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  1. Daegun Augur

    This is not a nerf call, it's a plea to find a productive fix. It has been petitioned and no action has been taken against the offending individuals. Every attempt to discuss it on this forum has the thread deleted. What, then, is the proper venue for this community to discuss this problem?

    Mass killing in populated zones causes zone latency. The community wants stable zones for everyone to play in and it is not fair that a few select deviants can ruin it for everyone else. I'm tired of the BS. I and my friends just want to play in peace.

    Can we please have an honest conversation about this in a way that doesn't violate the vague rules of this forum?
  2. Yther Augur

    Just had to say, that putting in the title An honest discussion, implies it won't be, and will be very angry and argumentative. Sorry, but I assume stuff is honest (though maybe slightly exaggerated if the person is really upset) by default, and having to qualify your statments as such indicates a tendency, if not the norm, to lie.

    Just my take on the topic title. And personally, I've never heard nor seen such latency and have mass killed many zones, though not the newest expansions. The only issue I've generally had about any zone, is some of my favorites have super long zone times, but that's even when they're empty, and is way longer than instances take to come up, and like when SoF expansion was new, and Hills of Shade would crash and reset every 30 minutes or so.

    Yther Ore.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Leerah like this.
  3. Explicit Augur

    Obviously no one sees it as a problem that mages can beam down entire zones and lag everyone out in the process (the same reason wizard beams got nerfed in TSS for doing the exact same thing - to a T). No, it's not a slight against mages...it's just that you don't see monks pulling entire zones and lagging them out (why? they can't kill a whole zone...a mage can via supposed exploit - can we even get a dev to confirm it's an exploit?)

    What they're telling you by deleting every single thread/post regarding it is that it's 100% ok and you should just deal with it -- their implied words, not mine.

    Since that's the case apparently, can we get wizard beams moved back to unlimited targets?
  4. Daegun Augur

    Yther,

    Every attempt to discuss this problem quickly devolves into a clamoring chorus of "quit calling for nerfs" and the mods have it locked down. The name of the thread is only to highlight it's intent and purpose. Players have a legitimate complaint when the zones they want to hunt in aren't stable. As a community are we ok with this? As a development team are the developers ok with this? If the answer is yes - then so be it. If the answer is no, then we should be able to discuss constructive ways of fixing the problem without having threads locked and deleted.
  5. Yther Augur

    I hadn't read any of those, and was just pointing out what I thought about the title. I can understand being frustrated with threads getting locked, but were they getting locked because of your posts or others? If others, I wouldn't take offense at it, just try to keep the conversation going in a constructive manner, as you seem to want to do here, but the title as stated, doesn't give that implication by it's nature. If they are getting closed because of your posts, then maybe you should change them some, and maybe this is an attempt at that. If it is, hopefully it is more constructive than previous ones.

    Just my two cents.

    And thanks, Explicit for the nice, brief summary of the issue.

    Yther Ore.
  6. Xerzist Augur

    I regularly swarm zones on my Shadowknight, who is level 85. I am on the Bristlebane server and to be honest I have not heard any complaints from players about the stability, however, often noted I have had complaints that I shouldn't be able to kill that many mobs.

    A true fix is something that is debatable. You can't specifically tone down players abilities to kill a large amount of mobs, if they are higher level, then I suppose they earned that ability.

    What I do notice though is that many "area of effect" spells are able to hit --every mob in that area--, whereas some other spells only let you hit --four or five mobs in that area--

    There is a huge difference between my Mages ability to AE mobs, and my Shamans. My Shamans AE spells only hit around 4-5 mobs it seems, my Mage - can hit all of them.

    The only "suitable" response I could think of is to have all AE spells only affect up to a certain number of mobs. This could be a reasonable fix:

    For levels 1-20, AE spells effect up to 5 mobs.
    For levels 20-30, AE spells effect up to 7 mobs.
    For levels 30-40, AE spells effect up to 9 mobs.
    For levels 40-50, AE spells effect up to 11 mobs.
    For levels 50-60, AE spells effect up to 13 mobs.
    For levels 60-70, AE spells effect up to 15 mobs.
    For levels 70-80, AE spells effect up to 17 mobs.
    For levels 80-90, AE spells effect up to 19 mobs.
    For levels 90-100, AE spells effect up to 21 mobs.

    This should reduce the amount of mobs players are pulling. It would be an easy mechanic to implement into the spells and would still allow players to farm, xp, and do some rather large pulls.

    Some other mechanics that could really be toned down are headshot, execute, and the Rogue ability to one hit mobs. These abilities need to be put on a timer, and not at random. They could put it on a similar timer as the Banestrike ability. The idea that Rangers can mass root and just sit back and click one button to kill mobs really bothers a lot of players.

    Then again, it also isn't fair for my SK to be able to handle the load that I do when swarming. But my AE spell from my pet doesn't affect "every mob in the vicinity", it seems to only hit around 10, but I haven't checked the raw data.

    These are all simple things that could be toned down, to make the player experience more enjoyable.
  7. Qabal New Member

    I've been hit by the swarming zone lag before several times. Of course the people causing the lag are going to deny it, but it does happen. I know it, swarmers know it, a lot of people know it. Will anything be done to fix it? Probably not. Good luck to you. =)
  8. Xerzist Augur


    I mean like I said, I openly admit to swarming. If players told me it was negating their experience I would absolutely go to an empty zone or otherwise. I am all about the community being happy. I cannot speak for others, though.
  9. Yther Augur

    Apparently has nothing to do with SK swarming, but a high level Mag ability to use beam spells on unlimited targets. Read Explicit's post at http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/i...-discussion-zone-latency.200161/#post-2953933 in this very thread.

    Yther Ore.
  10. Xerzist Augur

  11. Falos Augur

    this never happens on xegony or most servers for that matter, nothing should be done to nerf that ability just because of something one maybe 2 players serverwide are doing.

    This thread is already getting played out.

    Topic creators intentions are more than clear, and it isnt the first or even 2nd time i've seen him bring this topic up before, i recall it being brought up several months ago as well.

    It is not anything that needs changing, the one or two players in question should be dealt with individually and the mage class should be *left alone* The ability has practical uses for old school farming and such in totally empty zones, most mages do not utilize the ability for exp, it also isn't something a mage can realistically do without help from other classes so you most likely are targeting the mage class for the actions of someone that is using a multitude of class abilities to achieve the end result of their griefing.

    Don't try to get an entire class nerfed just because there is a mental case mage on your server that is violating the rules and disrupting zones. I'd actually be in favor of the person that is disrupting the zone having their name outted so that people could tell them how the entire universe views them in real life.
  12. Mykaylla Augur

    That's because you're comparing PBAE and beam spells with rains and other targetted AE.
    Targetted AE spells are limited by number of mobs they hit, since you can cast it from a "safe" range.
    PBAE spells are not limited by number of mobs since they are limited by being in immediate melee proximity.
    Beams, as a newer mechanism than the other two, weren't restrictive in quite the same way. Wizard beams, as most people on the forums are aware, were nerfed due to beamkiting zones. As mages were not doing this, theirs did not get nerfed.
    Limiting AE spells like that would be rotten for enchanters, who are already taking risk by using PBAE abilities in proximity and hate (And as we all know, AE mezzes are no longer affected by mez mastery and you can't chain PBAE stun to lock on its' own by a single person).

    As to the OP, I don't care if people are capable of swarming, just like bard swarm kiting didn't bother me, or shakerpaging, or riposte assassination/decapitate trains, or headshotting, et cetera. I'm capable of swarming now, but for most of my time in EQ, I've played low damage characters, for whom soloing was a painful and pitiful experience, and it still didn't bother me then. What *is* worth looking at is why, on those servers where people *are* beaming swarms in Evantil, that particular zone is having such lag issues. Goodness knows, all zones are not created equally. Plane of Innovation has awful pathing, and once you get to about 20 mobs, you can feel the lag in the zone from that, anywhere in the zone- mobs start behaving oddly, everything "rubberbands." Other zones from the *same* expansion have no such issue. Kaesora Library, even if someone is swarming 120 mobs in another part of the zone, is playable. If Evantil is not, maybe that needs looking at.

    Hey, if it is determined that Evantil is another PoI and there's not much they can do to clean that up, I'd be in favour of adding an instanced Evantil mission with full base trash pop, just to make it easier on people working progression on those servers having difficulties in the static. It really doesn't bother me if some other class can get AAs faster- some might consider my AA count high, but I'm not even a quarter of Hiladdar's, or half of Ayvan's. Does that really matter? Nope. Give them somewhere to beamkite that isn't interfering with current expansion progression, and hopefully the petitions should dry up.
    Kelefane likes this.
  13. Xirtket Augur

    How many aa are people pulling in by doing this? during a lesson burn?
  14. Falos Augur


    I've never utilized this method for exping personally it's wayyyy too much hassle for what its worth because it's only slightly faster exp then just exping like a normal sane person. It takes quite a bit of time to round up these pulls and then beam them down and honestly people are using more than just 'lag' they are bringing a ranger with them (friend or otherwise) and snaring the mobs as well otherwise such pulls would be WAYYY too risky even with the laggy pulls. In evantil people weren't getting but about 25-30 aa's per a lesson from what I recall which is not that mindblowing.


    The only valid complaint in this thread and only problem is that there are one or two specific players GAME WIDE that are disrupting a zone on their server... the players should be dealt with as individuals and the class should not be nerfed as a whole.
  15. Xirtket Augur

    Agreed.
  16. Daegun Augur

    The class doing it is irrelevant, and yes SKs or any class that pulls large chunks of mobs is capable of the same zone lag. Food for thought: when I swarm Kaesora instances on my sk, the zone lag is significant enough that I can run through the entire swarm barely taking any damage. By the time the zone or server knows i'm in range to be hit - i'm long since past. Googling any number of youtube videos will show this lag - the mobs start rubberbanding while being pulled something fierce.

    The same lag that causes the rubber-banding hits every player in the zone - it's too much stress on the server and completely irrelevant of the individual's pc. I run a top of the line machine and I know the instant someone starts a swarm - pulls don't work. Pets don't work. Mercs don't work.
  17. Shimmerleaf Augur

    I have seen extreme zone lag in Kaesora library and Evantil when folks are swarming. In KL I hunt in the SW corner, It is just right for my hunting style, but if anyone starts swarming on the east side it becomes almost impossible to pull, hit, shoot, snare or otherwise engage mobs.
    In Evantil, when we were trying to kill wretched, anyone starting to swarm will wreck any ability to fight. Even the merc tank could not find an incoming mob, much less we be able to engage it.

    I couild not care less about other folks making good or better experience; it does not hurt me. But I do expect to be able to hunt my little corner without ridiculous problems in simple melee.

    BTW, in case any one says use the instanced version of KL, the mobs are about one level lower on average. enough to turn most light blues into greens, so I can understand not wanting to swarm in KL instance.

    (I am not the typical HS ranger as I only pull one or two at a time and loot - clearly exp is not the overriding concern.)

    All stay safe,

    Shimmerleaf
  18. Explicit Augur

    So...fix wizard beams anyone?

    Throw a fix for zone latency in there too. I heard there was a guy with a private server who basically solved the issue, maybe hire him to get to the bottom of it.
  19. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    Mage beaming is not as safe and easy as wiz beam were; wiz beams were insant cast, mage beams have a cast time.

    When I mass beam on my mage, I get cleric/shaman defense healing proc buffs(Lethergy/Shining Armor), a cleric merc, and tank the mobs. It usually takes 10-20 times the normal cast time to successfully channel a beam that way.

    Wizard beams were too exploitable, since they only needed to pause for a moment to cast. that small cast time makes a HUGE difference. Compare pre-post nerf circlets of shadow(s)...
  20. Starla Elder

    Play in a instance to maintain lag free public zones and avoid community problems? Just a idea.....
    Sinestra likes this.
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