Alliance rework

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by uberkingkong, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. uberkingkong Augur

    I'm thinking alliance needs rework.
    3 enchanters if they are in a group and cast mez on the same mob, at that target an AE occurs that mezes everything 100 of it, and they each enchanter gets a charm mob for 1 minute and after charm breaks those mobs go into mez state.
    3 monks if they are in a group and pulling and FD next to each other at sametime, it should be 100% successful and when the monks pop back up altogether it should give the mobs scared of unkillables debuff, basically slows there attack worse than shaman slow, like 85% for 15 seconds, it stacks with shaman slow so shaman slow can take over afterwards. Also it decreases STR DEX 85% so they don't hit hard for 15 seconds as well.
    3 paladins if they stun the same mob at sametime a Targeted AE stun for 5 seconds and knockback happens the Targeted AE is 300 range, the first paladin who did the stuns builds a ton of aggro as well.

    I'd like to see more creative alliances is all.
    Fenthen likes this.
  2. dwish Augur

    I think a good start would be to change them where they don’t over-write each other. As it is right now, as a dps at least, you use alliance and one of your class peers uses it right after your alliance is now gone. You can setup triggers and such to avoid this, but it would nice if they just made this small change.

    Personally, I’m not a big fan of alliance spells myself and they to me are just an annoying gimmick that thankfully don’t mean a whole lot on your overall DPS these days. However, when these spells first hit the fulmination procs we’re godly for a lot of classes and not proccing them nearly every time meant your parse was probably wrecked for that event.
    Skuz and Yinla like this.
  3. Cadira Augur

    Where as I think several or all of the alliances need reworked a little in terms of how hard it is to fulminate (zerker and monk) or how much damage it does (just about everyone, especially wizards - the damage increases haven't scaled well since their inception imo) I think your ideas are extremely arbitrary, impossible to code and mostly useless in general.

    Keep the same idea, increase damage appropriate to each class and make monk and zerk alliance way easier to fulminate imo.
    Skuz, Syylke_EMarr, RPoo and 2 others like this.
  4. Alnitak Augur

    Beastlords' coalition works ok. Consistent, reliable, quick to trigger. I play with 2 beastlords in the group most of the time and it is quite useful. Adds 53K dps to each beastlord sustained, although at mana expense of close to 25K per use.
    In EoK when it was introduced it was an uber weapon - 2mil+ fulmination twice per mob was enough to basically kill anything in there under a minute (recast tme for Allience is 60 secs). These days when Tier 2 trash has 70+ mil HP double fulmination at 3mil x 2 is simply not as impressive, and is almost not registered on nameds with 300+ mil HP.
    I hope they are rescaling fulminations in the next expansion.
    Although, I also play 2 mages in a group quite often - never triggered coalition ever. Too hard for mages.
    Have triggered with 2 rogues in a group. Triggered with a zerker on raids and never in a group. Never triggered with 2 bards. Oh well, figures.
  5. Soulbanshee Augur

    There's creative, and then there's unbalanced. Devs have always said they don't intend players to just run around as "gods" and not have any danger which has resulted in many abilities being rolled back over the years. The way I read yours seems like it would give players too much power, or else cause an imbalance when you can't get/have enough of the same classes together.

    Pretty sure I've seen them not over-write (at least for mage). I have a timer for the "lands on" and it does not reset when another alliance is cast (or I can't cancel my cast in time). You still get cooldown whether it lands or not.

    Just a FYI, time one mage to TC when the other mage casts alliance, should fulminate before it wears off. Otherwise, yes cast timer is too long to fulminate normally.
  6. Tevik Augur

    I think they need to be split out into their own filter category as well, because right now you need to have all player spells visible in order for triggers to work. That can be a big lag fest on some raids.
  7. Maedhros High King

    The alliance system needs a complete overhaul.
    When I play my paladin, its hard for us to get the paladin alliance to fire even with 4 paladins on raid.
    Same exact idea with my berzerker, even with 4 berzerkers on raid, though its slightly better chances than paladin.
    Bard alliance fires super fast, but we usually have 5 to 9 bards on our raids so you'd expect that to happen.
    The weird issue with bard alliance is that they are the only class that can recast it faster than once a minute, which doesn't make sense, and I am not counting spell gem refreshing abilities like Forceful rejuv or things like mage chaotic.
    Now with my necro, even if there are only 2 necros on raid, my alliance lands and then fulminates in less than 1 tick every single time.

    One of the worst aspects of the alliances is that for some classes, good players are extremely negatively affected by poor players who play sloppily or lazily and reduce the chances of the good players alliance firing. While in contrast a bad player that miraculously manages to remember to cast their alliance will enjoy higher odds of fulmination from their better played peers.

    This is more and more common the farther down the tiers of raid guilds and disproportionately affects lower tier guilds in a negative way.
    Something should be done to grant better odds of an alliance firing when peers of your class are attacking a mob, even if they are lazy or bad players.

    I don't even have the energy to talk about how bad priest alliances are.
    Syylke_EMarr, Vrinda and Cadira like this.
  8. Fenthen aka Rath

    I would just be happy if paladin requirements were in-line with SK requirements. As it is alliance is impossible to proc, and pretty useless even if you somehow cheat your way to it.
    Wdor and Syylke_EMarr like this.
  9. dwish Augur

    This is why I hope when they upgrade alliances again next expansion they don't boost the fulimation much, as where it's at right now it's some nice extra damage, but it's not going to make or break you as a DPS class. This is where it should be at in my opinion.
    Skuz, Maedhros and Coagagin like this.
  10. dwish Augur

    They definitely overwrite each other, at least for beastlords and I would assume everyone else as well. It's as simple as making an audio trigger for the text of alliance landing on the mob, and then hearing it 3 times in the span of 1 second when three of your other classmates decide to cast alliance all at the same time. Only the last person will get the fulmination.

    Luckily, my class peers are pretty good at not overwriting, but it would nice if it just wouldn't stick at all if there was already another alliance on the mob waiting to be procced. Especially if they plan on boosting it to the ridiculous levels it used to be at.
  11. Szilent Augur

    Decoupling alliances from the quality of one's teammates runs pretty strongly counter to their raison d'etre.

    It's the several alliances that are notably easier than the median that are an issue.

    I disagree. The incentive to make cooperative effects work should be high.
  12. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    It looks like some classes are handled differently, wizzys block each other not overwrite.

    With the additional buff slots I see no reason why we cannot have multipuls of each alliance on a mob.
  13. Cicelee Augur

    Alliance should require coordination amongst members of the same class in order to be successful.
    Wdor likes this.
  14. blood & gufts Augur

    there could be something that help coordination of alliance.

    like some special filter so you see your class alliance only.

    but true it is underpowered, with all the increase of mobs hps since they original came
  15. bigpapa Augur

    change or stop or double the lenght of the dumb alliance for priests , specially shaman since we are the ** lucky ** class ( because of the range of it ) to have to cast that dumb buff every 4 min and can be many target as well { depending how many shm in the raid } .

    other class cast once and don't worry about it for a minute ........... i wish i would cast it only once every minute as well .
    Raccoo likes this.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    They could at least be more consistent with how they get triggered as there are some that can be fired by most others in the raid and others that are tricky to get to fire.
  17. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    So much this. Fulmination damage for DPS classes needs to be x10 if alliance fulmination triggering is left the way it is. For some classes even 5-6 of their peers in a raid have trouble fulminating. For what? An extra 1% DPS? Hardly worthwhile. Most DPS classes have stopped wasting endurance/mana on Alliance.

    Either: lower the requirements for fulmination/make reliable triggering fulmination damage, or hugely increase the incentive for cooperating between classes.

    In its current state, it's a bit of a waste of code and compute cycles.
  18. dwish Augur

    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I don’t really like a sizeable chunk of my DPS coming from a gimmick type spell that 100% relies on other people playing well to proc it. What about non flavor of the month DPS classes that perhaps don’t have multiple class peers on raids to proc their alliance?? I guess they are just screwed from a large portion of DPS. I’m won’t even get into how much harder it is to proc alliance on some classes.

    I feel it should stay where it’s at right now. Some nice extra damage but not something that you MUST get everytime to put up good numbers. I have one of the easiest alliances to proc as well as a beastlord and I still don’t want it to go back to ridiculous levels it was at when first released.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    +1 vote for making the hard to fulminate alliances easier and the easy to fulminate alliances harder. I was so disappointed by the frequency of fulmination from my 3x berserker group.
    Skuz, Maedhros, Cadira and 1 other person like this.
  20. Fleiss Journeyman

    Just change them all to insta cast AAs with same mana or endurance cost. If you can coordinate it, free damage. If you can't, you can't. Scaling is bad right now but this eliminates the should I cast this or something else. Also, limits it to once per minute per toon.
    Skuz, Fenthen, kizant and 1 other person like this.