Agnarr "bot armys"

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by Lost(Lxst), Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Lost(Lxst) New Member

    hello everyone,

    my name is Lxst (pronounced Lost). i am a new everquest player. i decided to start playing this game with the release of the agnarr server. with that said, i apologize if my questions are considered well known, or obvious.

    it has come to my attn that some players on the agnarr server are either using bot programs or very sophisticated play techniques to run full groups (4 to 6 toons), and essentially grind out a camp with sometimes only one, or no actual players at the helm. this has become much more common during the current increased rare mob spawn event.

    my first question is: is this behavior considered acceptable practice in this community?

    my second question is: is this behavior considered by the game masters to be an offence?

    my third and final question is: if this is not considered acceptable, and is an offence, what can i do personally to help the community or game masters stop this behavior?

    i realize every game community has different practices and policy. in the past, within other games, i have gone to great lengths to help insure the integrity of different servers. helping to report or in some cases hunt and track botting and boxing where applicable. however, i am very new here and do not know exactly what is and is not allowed. i also do not know how reporting is done here, when an offence does occur.

    thank you all for your time,
  2. Agrippa Augur

    It's a pretty sad state of things now. Those bot armies probably bring in more revenue than anything that legit players can bring in through our subs or store purchases. They most certainly bring in enough to cover any losses from people who are sickened by this sort of thing moving on. Still, though, DBG does offer some lip service for a couple of the progression servers, at least. The best you can do is video anything that you might find and send that in with a /petition. Just don't be surprised if it falls upon deaf ears. Otherwise, DBG did create the wild west and players have tools and ways of dealing with this on their own. Though we don't get any real support with it, I'd say that gaming *community* is still against cheating.
  3. Aurastrider Augur

    Boxing on agnarr is not illegal but it must be done on separate computers which is known as "true boxing". I am sure there are people that have found loopholes around this and do cheat but at the same time there are people that are very skilled and can box a full 6 man group on 6 computers without any difficulty. If you have a basic understanding of hotkeys, keybinds and macro's there are some classes that only require the press of 1 or 2 buttons to play during battle which is not all that difficult if you have the right setup. You have to remember that players have had nearly two decades of MMO gaming to fine tune their craft and a lot of the high end boxers have been boxing for a good portion of that time. On your end it might look like someone using software but on the user end it is often just muscle memory, good keyboard placement and lots of practice resulting in flawless boxing. Not to mention classic EQ is pretty basic in terms of abilities and spells so there really is not a ton of things to even macro in.

    With that being said you can always do a /petition and send what ever evidence you have to DBG and let them decide if the individual is cheating or not. The problem with this I suspect is they get more petitions regarding things like this than they have people to actually investigate and even when they do investigate I imagine the bulk majority of claims are against people who are following the EULA but appear to be using some sort of program when in fact they are just highly skilled.
  4. Ghubuk Augur

    Every time I see a certain player come in and defend 3rd party usage, I know something shady is going on.
  5. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    I laugh when people mention 3rd party programs, I mean without some 3rd Party programs (i.e. DirectX, etc) no one would be able to play EQ at all. It is only specific 3rd party programs that are not allowed. It's even funnier when people make baseless, veiled accusations of others cheating because the accused gave a common sense, reality-based, explanation that didn't require the use of unauthorized programs or cheating.

    As to the OP, you make a claim that cannot be substantiated. You're assuming that the people are botting or boxing, but you have no real proof that even is just a single person. It very easily could be a group of 6 people who have played with each other for over a decade (or more) and are using a voice chat service.

    As for your questions,
    1) Depending on where it occurs and how disruptive it is, the community, in general, doesn't have an issue with it; but when it is going on in a highly contested location or occurs to the point that it excludes all others from ever getting any of the rare mobs that spawn there the opinion changes.
    2) Agnarr is a True Box server, so it is set up to only allow 1 instance of EQ on a computer to be logged onto that server. As Aurastrider stated if there is a single person playing all of them they most likely will have to have multiple computers; there are ways around it but not as many due to agreements made when the True Box system debuted. So Daybreak's view on it is that if a single person has multiple instances of EQ on the same computer logged into Agnarr then it is a violation of the EULA; however, if the person simply has 6 separate physical computers then DGC is perfectly fine with it. The caveat is that the limited number of resources available to deal with petitions makes looking into these a long process so don't expect a quick turn around.
    3) The only thing you can do is /petition giving as much information about the players you are accusing and the situation that you can. Zone, locs, character names, server, time, date, actions that make you think that they are in violation of the True box rule (which is almost impossible for you to prove without them stating it openly).

    Generally, unless someone is actually being negatively affected by what they are doing, I would not go about tracking anyone or doing anything nearly as evasive as what you describe. That kind of activity is more likely to get you in trouble than the other people. Boxing (person actively playing multiple characters at the same time) is 100% legal on all servers; just a few servers like Agnarr are true box servers which players to one active account/character on the server per computer. Botting (completely automated or unattended play) is 100% illegal on all servers, but at this point in the game it is hard to distinguish (especially for new players) the difference between a bot and simply a veteran player who has been playing their class for 17 years to the point where it is almost all muscle memory.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  6. Flatchy Court Jester

    How was Aurastrider defending 3rd party usage? (if that is indeed who you were speaking of.)
    Read the last sentance again. I remember many years ago when I did not box, watching a master at his craft. Gatlan a Ranger on BB server, Some may know him as Obsessive, one of his many toons. I would group with him and his 5 toons and be amazed at how he could do such things alone. I learned and paid for 4 accounts and was my own group too after seeing what one can accomplish.

    Dont always be quick to assume on things you dont do or cant do.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  7. Ghubuk Augur

    That's not what I was saying.
  8. Drakkal Elder

    I would agree with you on not judging to quickly, because there are a lot of legitimate boxers......buut, there are a couple who are obviously going beyond what would be considered feasible for the normal person. There is a certain player who likes to sit down in Temple Droga camping circlet of shadow, running 6 accounts all at different spawn points. Controlling the camp, with all the spawn points, is not the hard to believe part, it is when you see all of the necro pets going to specific spot, right before the mob spawns. Literally a body guard will spawn and his necro pets are already almost to it, no, not gina, they are moving before a sound queue would go out. The best part? If you can find him at one of the accounts(shouldn't be to hard he just got back from a suspension for afk play, so hes paying more attention), talk to this waste of life, socially dis-functional, quickly realize hes running not 6 but 18 accounts, farming, while he has 1-2 accounts sitting in the tunnel selling his goods.
  9. Zinkeh Augur

    I know exactly who you are referring to, lol. He's been all over the server, and still is. He's parked in Droga, Seb Crypt, Fungi king. He's bragged to me that "I have NO idea how much money he has made on agnarr and that he's very happy with this life" He has at least 2 mules that sell off his stuff in the tunnel. He makes cheap krono here to sell on servers where the value is 10x what it is on agnarr.

    I think it's ridiculous that people just wanting a shot at some loot pretty much have to buy from this guy or the multiple "chinese invasion" folks that are also doing this. What's even more pitiful is that you're essentially stuck buying from him, or buying krono FROM him on one of the vendor sites to give to HIM for the loot he's camped. Lovely circle of transactions there.

    I've not purchased a single krono from eq or otherwise and I go out of my way to avoid purchasing from him or his ilk.......

    For those always coming back with the "camp the loot yourself then" can't. You cannot. When a guy has 8 characters + sitting at one camp, at every conceivable spawn point using automation software (he does) to pinpoint a spawn and swarm it there is no real recourse.

    With the amount of money these TLP servers are raking in there is no reason we shouldn't have a GM presence on the server that doesn't take a mountain of screenshots, video footage and a week to get a response.
    Herf likes this.
  10. Aurastrider Augur

    As far as Agnarr goes I don't support the use of boxing software since it is a violation of the EULA. For servers that don't have a true box rule I stand behind boxing software that is in compliance with the EULA and when the user is also in compliance with the EULA. The EULA is the law of the land and in the end it is all that matters. With that said I also believe in old school EQ play nice principals and overall trying to be a good member of ones respective server. Being a boxer does not make one a jerk being a jerk makes a person a jerk.
  11. Tannin Steelblade Journeyman

    A while back some of us came over from the other servers and tried to play on the progression style to see if we could rekindle some nostalgia. What we found how ever was a cesspool of Krono bots or what ever the kids call them these days. Of the feelings i had playing over there for a brief time a good remembrance for the old days was not even close to the top 20. Game has changed sure. No matter how hard we try we will never get back to that feeling we older game players once had of something new and magical. It happens once in a life time and the rest of the time you are simply Chasing the Dragon.

    I am not saying they do not have a right to be there doing what ever it is they do. Those folks pump money into the coffers and i really do not think big brother is gunna bite the hand that feeds them. At least not how i personally think they should be treated but my opinions on that i doubt would change anyone's mind. I do remember a time when the big thing was selling trade-able items on black market sites. DoDH era i remember playing in a zone watching bots poof all over the zone using programs jumping from one named spawn to another. After some grief sony did do something about it, but i do think ya have to have some logs and good detailed petitions to help.

    I guess overall it just felt kinda slimy over there. I mean the big guilds think its so hard core to throw a pile of people at an event that has been known how to do for 18 years and sit and brag about it lol.. that in itself is entertaining but if you looking for a more relaxed eq experience come over to Luclin server. Sure the lower level player base is not like it is on prog servers but we have been around longer, more mature player base, "usually". Some good guilds that work hard on current content that involve more than knowing how to use 3 or 4 skills /duck. You can go a long ways with a merc on the live servers.. take your time explore the zones. Best of all you wont have to worry about a whole lot of goobers messing up your day.
    moogs likes this.
  12. Lost(Lxst) New Member

    ok, well thx everyone for your responses.

    all i've gleamed from this is: you can report, but dont expect anything to be done. apparently because they dump $$ into the game. (terrible reason)

    and of course, as with any game, someone said i have no evidence and/or dont know what im talking about.... great on ya mate.

    i'm not an idiot, i know no one cares if i quit. and i guess no one cares about reporting here. i wont bother you all with questions anymore. sorry i tried to reach out. best of luck to all those who play correctly.
  13. moogs Augur

    That's not what they said. If you have evidence, submit it and let the support team investigate the incident. You do not know what is going on behind the scenes unless you see behavior that is not otherwise possible. That means seeing things such as a group rush out and the melee characters stick like glue to the mob and then they return to the exact same position as before. There has been a tool available for nearly as long as EQ has been online that allows the player to see a countdown to a spawn timer, whether it is a placeholder or a rare mob, and what it will drop before it's even engaged. Other tools allow players to warp around, custom scripts will auto heal and auto rez, etc. This stuff is definitely out there and the support team can use your help in putting a spotlight on unusual patterns. Let them determine what the truth is - it's not for you to decide - and go on with your gaming experience.
  14. Aurastrider Augur

    No one attacked you here and people gave you sound advice. Your end is speculation when it comes to these things unless you see characters actually doing something that is not physically possible in game and even then the only thing you can do is report them. Use the report tool, capture video and save chat logs if you have them and submit your evidence. I am not sure what more you were looking for from the players in terms of measure you can take?
  15. faya Lorekeeper

    This right here... I 6 box, all gold accounts, i don't use any macro or cheating programs -- Everything is hotkeys and muscle memory. Simple things for consistency... toons are grouped in the same order every time, the number 5 hotkey on each toon does essentially the same thing, etc...
  16. Accipiter Old Timer

    Not true. Take video, report the player, and provide a link to the video. If DBG can prove they are botting then they will be suspended or banned.
  17. phaeril Augur

    Yeah, well... the fact is that you don't know what you're talking about; you don't learn to tell the difference between someone playing well and cheating right off the bat. You don't even claim to have witnessed it, just that it's come to your "attn" that players are "either using bot programs or very sophisticated play techniques." The tl;dr of this thread is that the vast majority of boxers are just capable of boxing because we have spare computers and don't have wooden hands. It's not even sophisticated, it's just numpads and planning as can be seen when people stream themselves boxing to shut someone up for awhile.

    You can report, but don't expect anything to be done because you're almost certainly wrong. If you really want to fit in with the "community" on Agnarr (the part of the community that thinks boxing is inherently wrong) just send us tells about how pathetic we are. It's ok, we're used to being told to kill ourselves every few days. If you have any sense, you'll just ignore the boxers since the vast majority tend to avoid getting in people's way. The few that lock down camps forever are also not a real problem, it's so easy to make plat on Agnarr that you can just buy whatever crap it is they are camping that you want. They flood their own market so bad that everything is practically worthless.

    I'm one of the kinds of people boxing... the kind that are done with people. If you try talking to me, you're likely going to get no response if you jump straight to accusing me of cheating or just begging for ports/buffs. I'll probably port you anyway, but I'm not going to talk to you. Doesn't mean I'm not there. Now if you're looking for a hand killing something, you'll get the boxer that likes to do things and I'm almost certainly willing to help.

    Again, in case you missed it... you actually do not know what you're talking about, but that's OK. If you stick around you'll find your perception of things isn't as grim once you understand what's happening.