Agnarr and our future after PoP

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Corilleous, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. Khaliss Augur

    The real appeal of Agnarr is BECAUSE it's PoP locked. Want to play past PoP? Go roll a toon in FV too, like I did. I play on both servers... if I want nostalgia, I play on Agnarr... if I want to play top-end & content past PoP, I play on FV! Problem Solved
  2. Raltar Augur

    What ban, exactly?
  3. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    I think a lot of the problem on Coirnav right now is that few people want to play classic hardcore like they did phinny. There were a dozen guilds going hard with raiding on classic Phinny: AoS, OGC, EoE, IVAS, RG3, DW, TBW(or did they come later), and quite a few others I can't even remember. I was part of that, but then I realized that honestly, outside of farming planar armor, there were only like 2 loots from the entire expansion that were worth doing for my shaman that wouldn't be replaced immediately. I know that raiding is not all about the gear, but raiding just for the sake of killing stuff to preloot epic pieces for June does get a bit old, especially with the level of annoyance added by MotM


    Raid gear from Classic and Kunark rarely provides much that cannot be easily replaced in the next expansion. Not to mention, Yael, Fear 1.0, Sky, Inny, Vox/Nag and good old Phinny are not the most stimulating raid targets. Then you have Kunark raiding: Trak, Gore, Talendor, Sev, and VS available from start, with VP (with 6 loot droppers) locked behind a huge timesink. I feel like most guilds won't even touch VP due to that timesink, but I may be wrong. Compare that to Velious, which adds more raiding content to the, than the previous two expansions combined had: Dain, Vindi, AoW cycle, Tormax, Yelinak, Tunare (clear is literally like hitting a loot pinata for most classes), Kelor'dek Dar, Zlandicar, Klandicar, Sontalak, ToV which has the Dozer, EToV and WToV armor farm in place before you even consider the 14 bosses in NToV. Then we have Sleepers which has 4 bosses that drop awesome weapons and quest pieces. And Fear/Hate revamps.


    There are other considerations too. Want to roll an iksar? Your options are roll now, pay $25 on June 8, or roll on June 8. Want to play a beast or zerk? See you in Luclin or GoD. I digress though. The point is: Coirnav may not be quite as high pop as Phinny was on launch, but I could see the server being extremely healthy long term, as long as a few higher end guilds enter the raiding scene in the next year. With all the sleeper guilds I have seen floating around just going casual in Classic, I could see this becoming a reality, sorta like on Fippy, where the guild lineup that was there in classic and the guilds that were there in Velious/Luclin were very different, except at the very top.
  4. Snomie Elder


    That's the problem. A lot of the hope for the longevity of Coirnav is seemingly relying on the chance that guilds and a lot more people will suddenly roll on Coirnav in the next year. Sure it's possible it happens, but it's very very unlikely.

    A lot of the reasons for old established guilds re-rolling on Phinny the first go around don't apply to Coirnav now. Phinny started insanely high pop AND got a growth spurt later when a lot of established guilds realized instance raiding is fun and decided to start up on Phinny. Phinny was also receiving a ton of old players who heard that instanced raiding was a thing and starting jumping on to try it out.

    Coirnav is doing the opposite, starting with a high yet still lower population than the past AND experiencing population drop off instead of growth. Those same guilds (with the exception of MiM which disbanded on Phinny after the Pop+Ldon 6 months of hell) aren't keen on re-rolling to Coirnav as they've already done the instanced raiding once.
  5. Kahna Augur



    It is actually very likely. You forget that Agnarr will be hitting lock basically today, and in a few months many of those folks, despite what they might now think, are going to be looking for something other than PoP forever. Coirnav will be heading into Velious then, and with an established community and marketplace a krono twinked character will make the exp difference negligible.

    Coirnav is plenty healthy to move into the future, if RF and LJ can make it so can Coirnav.
    HappyPanda likes this.
  6. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    I agree with Kahna, Agnarr people that don't want a perma lock into PoP, Phinny people that aren't into merc content that comes out in 9 months, and others will come to the server. I guarantee you, there are plenty of people who are not rolling until certain expansions. Many of my friends are not rolling until Kunark or Velious because they hate classic.

    I don't dispute the fact that Phinny was way more populous at this stage, but I don't think that this server is gonna completely die out before Omens by any stretch. I'd much rather not be playing classic, but I feel that long term, this will offer me the most enjoyment compared to hopping on Phinny, LJ, or RF, and I wanted to start when a lot of my pals started.
  7. GeauxTigers Elder

    Personally I plan to check out live a few months after the lock, but people looking past LDON on agnarr are silly. There are tons of augs, spells, etc to farm.
  8. Kahna Augur

    There really isn’t. Unless you are an alt-of-holic, and even then, it’s not nearly as time consuming as people seem to think it is.
  9. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    Oh I'm sure that Agnarr will retain many players, but Coirnav will definitely grab some along the way!
  10. Snomie Elder


    The only people saying this seem to be Coirnav people. It's not as likely as you guys seem to think it is. It's literally just one Coirnav player saying it, then other Coirnav players saying "yeah you're right, we're totally going to get lots of phinny and agnarr players re-rolling here!"

    I'm sure there may be a handful of people who will choose Coirnav if they get bored on Agnarr and Phinny, but it's no where near as many as you guys seem to think. You guys have already received the bulk of the players who are interested in re-rolling or playing on Coirnav.

    Agnarr and Phinny players have already done the whole thing once (some of them twice if they play Agnarr + Phinny), it doesn't have the same draw anymore if nothing new is offered. What's much more likely is those players waiting for the next TLP that hopefully offers something new instead of re-doing the same thing again with no difference.

    You're not going to magically see Agnarr and Phinny players re-roll on there just because you believe they want to clear ntov again despite the fact that most never want to do that again.
  11. Kahna Augur


    But they will want to stay in PoP forever and keep clearing that content over and over again?

    I don't think they will be super excited about doing NToV again, I do think they will eventually want to see GoD and beyond, and Coirnav is their best option for getting there when they are bored of Agnarr.
  12. Snomie Elder

    Nothing points to people choosing Coirnav as the option to cure that boredom. It's just blind optimism to suggest that Agnarr people will decide to roll on Coirnav. You can keep suggesting scenarios where people magically pick Coirnav, but it doesn't make any of them actually likely to happen.

    People on Agnarr would be far more likely to have quit the game by the time GoD hits Coirnav.

    Not to mention, if you're relying on waiting until GoD hits to bring people to Coirnav it's going to be too little too late with the current population decay on Coirnav.

    I'm not wishing Coirnav fails or doesn't fail, it doesn't bother me one way or the other, but let's be realistic and not keep putting out these blindly optimistic predictions on how people will roll on Coirnav. The reality is that it's far more likely people choose to quit or wait for a more interesting TLP vs. rolling on Coirnav.
  13. GeauxTigers Elder

    Only people i've heard talk about curing boredom talked about playing live together, not re-doing classic together. lol.
  14. Filnydar Journeyman

    Every player who has already played on a fresh TLP knows that the Classic content is rather small, especially after level 35 or so. Kunark starts to offer many more levelling opportunities, without the burden to find a camp in an overpopulated Lower Guk.

    The real raid content starts with Velious : VP, with its stupid keying process, isn't a valid option.

    So, I expect a decent number of people to roll on Coirnav once they're done with whatever content they're advancing into right now, be it on Agnarr, or on live. They'll do that 2 months before Velious launches, to have the time to level to 60.

    Coirnav's population isn't certainly going to evolve the same way as on RF/LJ or Phinigel, but it's going to be steady way beyond GoD.
  15. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    To be fair, nearly all my friends on Phinny that played Agnarr during classic and Kunark referred to it as a dead-end krono farm. The main thing that makes Agnarr appealing (PoP/LDoN lock) makes it completely a no go for some people, like myself. I would not want to be stuck in PoP farming hell forever because I farmed Elementals and PoTime on live for almost 2 years. I feel like there are others that feel the same way.
  16. Snomie Elder


    Why? That's what everyone suggesting what you've said has been unable to answer. Why would these people roll on Coirnav over other options such as quitting or waiting for the next TLP? Why do you believe that raiding ntov will actually draw in lots of players who have already done it once or twice on agnarr/phinny?

    Coirnav players keep saying the same thing over and over but no one has given any real reason why this would happen. So what if velious has more raid content? Does that mean agnarr/phinny players will want to refarm ntov for 3 months? Why are you suggesting this when most agnarr/phinny players are saying the opposite (that they have no interest in rolling on Coirnav if they haven't already done so for their 'funsies' alts).

    I get that you play on Coirnav and you want it to succeed, but just randomly saying something will happen doesn't make it true when all the evidence says otherwise.
  17. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    I get that you want Agnarr to succeed and Coirnav to fail, but randomly saying something will happen doesn't make it true when there is really no evidence to support either thing other than speculation.

    We are all entitled to our opinion on this matter, but the thing is, only time will tell. The population of Coirnav is pretty strong, but honestly, it's not an indicator of long term players. I thought that RF/LJ would collapse within the first year of phinny, but they have a number of healthy raiding guilds that are about to be going to Omens of War. I feel that once people get sick of PoP on Agnarr they will roll on Phinny or Coirnav. Phinny if they want to be much later in content, or Coirnav if they want to see GoD - TSS content, which will be said and done by the point people start getting sick of PoP.

    The thing is, that right now, Coirnav has something to offer: another run through content Phinny has already passed, but without the boxing of RF/LJ or the Dead-end at PoP like Agnarr. I'm sure all of these servers will be fairly healthy in 2 years with completely different populations that want different things.

    Some people will play Agnarr a while and fizzle out and go to Phinny/Coirnav/RF/LJ, some people will get to SoD and be turned off by mercs and drop to Coirnav/Agnarr/RF/LJ, some people will get tired of the truebox things on any of the servers and jump in and get that 2.0 done on a new character on RF/LJ. Some people will be sick to death of TLP and go to live. Some people will quit for a while. Some people will bounce around. Some people will wait for the PVPTLP server that will eventually happen in like 3 years and be a ****storm. Some people will jump to every new server that opens because they can't quite catch the feeling of EQ like they had 15 years ago. Some people will up and quit forever(tm). Wherever you guys end up, I hope you have a great time on EQ, and if you're on Coirnav, I'm sure I'll see ya around!
    TLP Addict likes this.
  18. mesocornaiv Lorekeeper

    double post due to messed up internet
  19. Snomie Elder

    Er I'm not even playing on Agnarr? Which is why as I said I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just being realistic about what will happen TLP population wise. And copying what I said doesn't work when the evidence from how TLP servers grew in the past trends more towards what I'm saying (which is that Agnarr/Phinny players wouldn't be re-rolling on Coirnav in velious and would be much more likely to quit instead or wait for another fresh TLP).

    What I'm saying is actually based on how populations have grown/fallen on past TLPs. It would be assumed that populations would follow the same course on Coirnav and not suddenly do something different as Coirnav players seem to be wishing happens.

    If your idea of a healthy server is Lockjaw/Ragefire populations, then I agree. It will be 'healthy' in the long term. However if we're talking about Coirnav staying as a popular medium/high population server at most hours then no, it's going to become yet another low-ish population server outside of peak hours, there will be a lot less guilds as each expansion goes on and so far the population decay has been happening faster than any TLP has in the past.

    You seem to think I'm hoping Coirnav fails or something, but really I don't care if it does or if it succeeds. I'm just talking about a realistic scenario of what is most likely going to happen. The reality is the most realistic scenario based on past TLPS is that not enough Phinny/Agnarr/Live players will be interested in Coirnav to re-roll for ntov clears or GoD clears or whatever other expansion you want to throw out there.
  20. Deadshade Augur


    This .
    I am surprised that in all this speculation about Agnarr nobody saw the elephant in the room .
    Actually a large majority of players (and virtually everybody I know/knew) who joined Agnarr didn't care a bit about PoP locking because they simply didn't plan to stay long beyond PoP release .
    And by not staying I don't mean rerolling elsewhere - I mean simply leaving the game .

    In my friend list of some 170 players since the start of Agnarr, a big third already stopped playing EQ altogether .
    From the remaining 2/3 practically everybody (me included) contemplates leaving EQ in a matter of a few months .
    I do not doubt that a few top guilds will stay perhaps 1 year or a bit more but there will not be many people left outside of these guilds and from those leaving/having left only a very small minority if any at all will want to restart from scratch elsewhere .

    Agnarr's purpose was to target the large population which considers that EQ was best up to PoP and not worth playing beyond . Obviously it was a success but the price to pay is that as these people left EQ at PoP back in 2003, there is no reason that they behave otherwise today .
    I am convinced that Daybreak was perfectly aware of the very limited life expectation of Agnarr yet the choice is fast done between getting money from thousands of players during (only ?) 2 years and getting no money at all .
    Ronzark likes this.