Agents of Change for Live Servers?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Frogmancer, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Frogmancer Augur

    Any chance of adding AoC for live servers? I’m not sure I can think of a valid argument to keep old world raids open world, except rose-colored nostalgia. I’ll take ten day lockouts if I can sidestep having to take a day off work just for the chance at a boss I’m missing for my PoP flags.
  2. Risiko Augur

  3. Kaenneth Augur

    Due to unemployment I've had Vex Thal on lockdown for months at a stretch, just to get one item (took over 30 clears to get it finally). Meanwhile noone else can get anything. (I'm afraid if I announce rots, others will rush in and take the mobs, or know the respawn time and beat me to it next time.)

    Even a 14-21 day lockout on the instanced version would be better than that for the general playerbase.
    Cakekizy, Duder and Frogmancer like this.
  4. Poppinfresh Elder

    Only if they scale to 110. /duck
    Gyurika Godofwar and Frogmancer like this.
  5. Frogmancer Augur

    Honestly, I’m even fine with this. Force me to pull 2-3 groups people to kill Bertox in an instance. I’ll do it.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  6. snailish Augur

    well... they could wait for Phinny progression to catch live (auto unlocks so it will), allow transfers in but keep it full sub to access.


    Does that make more $ than putting it on all the current live servers? (I would guess yes. Transfers + subs/krono)
  7. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I'm a fan of this idea but... what form would they take? Phinigel ones are Phinigel shaped and Agnarr ones are Agnarr shaped?

    I'd be a big fan if each server gets one shaped like their server's god. Xegony floating all over PoTranquility would be magical. I would be slightly jealous of Brekt and Tunare servers though.
    Frogmancer likes this.
  8. Horyuken Augur

    What item was worth this much effort ?
  9. Frogmancer Augur

    This probably isn’t realistic for most players. Phinigel wont catch up to Live until 2023 or so.
  10. BrokenCue New Member

    I'm for this.. I would take the lockout timers of 7 to 10 days.
  11. snailish Augur

    Ring of Scale is projected* to be released on Phinigel September 2020.

    So probably 2 more live expacs by then, which would mean having to pass a third before being caught up... so about April of 2021? (level cap increase or not changes the timing I believe...)

    *assuming my quickly looked up source is on target.

    Anyways, it would come down to projected lost income of not putting AoC on live servers now vs. what it is worth making people wait & pay to get it on live status Phinny (if they go that route, which why wouldn't they?). Odds are people already rerolled on Phinny already if AoC was that important to them vs. the numbers currently on live that will quit over AoC not being there the next 3 years.

    TLDR: they don't need to add AoC to live servers for free. They'd rather you pay for it now on Phinny/Agnarr and might even be waiting to charge you to play it on live status Phinny --which makes business sense so who could blame them?
  12. Goodn Augur

    For the Vex Thal question - I am going to assume that it is the Circlet of Disguise with the All/All Human Illusion. South blob is the main thing on Xegony on lockdown and that's the unique drop from that. I sure hope it's not the IVU ear from False Aten...cause you can get that from Mechanic Guardian (I got one the other week when finishing Eron on a toon). Some of the Diabo stuff can be fun to have, but nothing that big.

    Now, the OP's point was for PoP flagging. Which is necessary for the best augment in the game by a mile. I do think that something can be considered for PoP flagging...much like the Harbingers for epic drops. When a PoP boss is down, a Harbinger pops and let's you run the boss fight with no loot, just planar projection at the end. But that might actually require more work that just adding AoCs for PoP on live. I dunno. On Xegony, we get pretty clear callouts for PPs being up in General but not every server is like that.

    So ignoring PoP for now - I don't like the idea of Agents of Change on regular Live servers. But I do like the epic assist mobs that they have added (and even think they need to add some more). So I think it is fair to say I'm a hypocritical about the idea of change on old world stuff. I think the epic stuff is great because some folks have the dragons or fear golems on lockdown and it can be hard for someone actually in the right level range for Epic 1.0 to get it (and a special boo shout out to those killing golems and then killing the iksar broodlings to mask timers without announcing for folks...boooooo).

    Open raiding old world is EQ to me. I'll mention below why it is to me, but I think you need to answer the question - why change (again...PoP flagging notwithstanding) first. This is not the first thread on this, nor will it be the last. But most of the time it feels like personal greed (on both sides)...one side wants what it cannot seem to get and the other wants to keep it that way. But as the one requesting the change for all old world content, I think you need to present more than you have.

    One reason I don't like it is simple (and selfish)...my time is valuable therefore the unique items I have acquired over time are valuable to me. If I want something from the old world (pre-instances), I'll put in the time to do it. If that means giving up doing things on my mains for a bit to camp, then I'm okay with the trade off. I have Circlets of Disguise and the IVU ear and Ornate Chain horseys etc. and all my PoP flags (mostly from open raids, not self kills) and for the most part, I can remember the time I put in to get those. I dislike it when the game forces a possible change in memory when I have a hard time understanding why the change occurred. I have some memorable corpse runs (and the 30+ corpses in L Fay from E the Corrupted many moons ago) but I understand why you have your stuff on you when you die (and the lobby for summoning and mercs for rezzing...) Frustrated people quit games, especially now. I'm not sure how many folks have quit EQ solely because they could not get a CoD or Seru's horse.

    Now I do understand the argument about these mobs being on lockdown...or at least locked enough for folks who can only play in the night, certain days of the week, only weekends, etc. I think that is the strongest and loudest argument for AoC. Everyone should get a chance to see content. But should that chance be guaranteed? Is guaranteed non-instance content regular EQ anymore?

    I've enjoyed racing to content over the last years of EQ...when it's not a question of can you kill it, but who can get there first. Server restarts are fun for me at least. I like running around, seeing what I can kill...old world and new. Am I going to get that named that has been eluding me for years in zone x? I like being somewhere it matters how skilled am I to get places, where I chose to camp for the restart, how much attention I pay to the game? A lot of old world stuff has slight offsets to discourage this, but the ones that don't...it has been fun over the years to try to get those.

    Another reason I don't like it is dev time spent on this is time not spent on other stuff. CoD is cool...but you can get human illusion potions. The IVU ear in Vex Thal is no longer unique (see Mech Guard drop). Seru/Emp horses are not the only fastest horses in game...and if you have a 75 speed mount, your 10k horse turns into one. Epic stuff...see above. I understand someone's desire to kill a mob they have never killed before. But does it matter to you if there is no loot? If people wanted AoCs without loot, I'd be behind it in a second. So there isn't a straight utility reason for AoCs. And I'd rather dev time be spent somewhere else.

    Things I don't know but would affect how I felt:

    -Does adding AoCs increase server load to the point where it affects regular play? Let's say that there is a 7 day lockout. How many times will someone with 10 90+ toons run instances during those 7 days for alts? (I'm assuming that level 90 alts can take anything in the old world single or with a merc...it's actually much lower than that for most...except maybe golem death touch) Across the server base, I don't know if that means anything or not. I don't think any of the AoC servers have reached a point where they are routinely going back and clearing old world stuff...

    -Are AoC items the same as main zone? Is the tradable stuff still tradable? Is there a special designation for an AoC loot vs regular zone loot?

    -Is there a minimum player requirement? Are mercs allowed? (I assume this stuff is answered...but I don't know it)

    Again, PoP flagging not withstanding (and I'm not convinced that even for that, something is required...but there is definitely an argument for PoP flags), I'm not for it, but this is definitely one change that won't force me to cancel my subscriptions or something else. I just would like to hear more reasons than I need a chance at a human illusion helm or change for change sake.
    Frogmancer likes this.
  13. Kaenneth Augur


    Gloves of Dark Summoning, very obsolete, but I wanted them for the sake of having them, after not getting them back when Luclin was current.

    Of coarse when I finally got them, two dropped, and one rotted.
    Duder likes this.
  14. Andarriel Augur



    lol
  15. Bigstomp Augur


    I like the idea of letting me attempt an old world named when I have time to do it instead of having a 3+ day spawn and catching it at the right time.
  16. HoodenShuklak Augur

    As someone who started FV within the last couple weeks, this really struck me... "Open raiding old world is EQ to me."

    What I have found, in my mid 60's, is that I cannot even see an old world mob. I'm a returning player looking for nostagia while I level on live. I've checked Vulak daily and never seen him. I've seen afk'ers on the spawns. And I've been told people just sit their and let the merc solo it. This is not raiding.

    All of these old world targets are down and I make a pass daily on targets ranging from Severilous to Vulak. It's really ridiculous and nobody needs the loot. They just want the gaming experience, and, at least on Firiona Vie, it's flat out denied. In short, there is no raiding.

    Instances on this old stuff, just like on TLP, would fix this easily. Let the players get their fix. It's not like there is literally any downside. The items are essentially worthless to the server as a whole.
  17. Alouen New Member

    I would like to bump this. I would love to see Agents of Change on live servers. Lockouts of some kind would be fine but it would really be nice for folks to have access to otherwise permacamped mobs especially for quest drops.
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    This is the problem, the old world raids that are not instanced are trivial to kill with a single player who doesn't even have to be max level. Which means that most of the players in the game will never get a chance to experience those events even when they have the opportunity to solo or one group later instanced raid events.
  19. kizant Augur

    Lots of EQ players are just crazy and for some reason they need to camp same pointless crap on all their alts. Plus for Vex Thal, there's no reason to clear every single named if you're only after 1 item.
  20. CaptainSkeet Augur

    As a TLPer I see no reason not to extend these to live. If people want to try to get stuff in open world, there is nothing preventing this, and it would actually give a better chance of this happeneing if AoCs were available on older content.

    If there is a concern about the account status boost that TLPs require (thus more income for DBG), add a check that only allows subbed accounts to use AoCs on live. Would likely have to be a request and entry requirement. The argument could be made that most of the old world stuff has a “nostalgic” reasoning to do it, though that’s debatable. Adding a sub requirement wouldn’t take away income to DBG because people wouldn’t skip the TLP servers and their AoC because they didn’t want to sub or pay to get them.

    Or let free accounts do it, whatever works.
    Cakekizy likes this.

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