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AFK Merc killing

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Crowbeard, May 31, 2014.

  1. feiddan Augur

    I consider taking the auto-grant feature to be cheating, too! All those AA's for no work!!!

    I did a search and saw no posts from a dev saying the auto-grant is not cheating; clearly getting SOMETHING for NOTHING is AGAINST the rules!!!

    This is an EXPLOIT and if EVERYONE JOINS ME IN MAKING A 20 PAGE THREAD, MAYBE THE DEVS WILL COME OUT AND AGREE WITH ME.
    Fenthen, Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Iila like this.
  2. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    Holy cow people are long winded on this topic. The posts are like short stories one and all.

    I'm hoping a dev steps in before the fabled 20 pages and just says shut up and locks the thread.

    Then I can reference this thread for the next 42 to come.
    Iila likes this.
  3. Rauven Augur



    Here is my original post on the matter of devs:

    That is what everyone is trying to debate currently. Everyone knows its allowed, the OP made a statement saying that should be changed. If you agree with that, then support the cause to get this disallowed. Everyone else debating against this is simply using the argument that its allowed. When we all know its not the intent of mercs and mercs shouldn't be used like this.

    And then they say its harmless. Anyone can go look at the Plane of War progression thread and can see how detrimental AFK mercs can be. That caused quite a bit of grief to many.

    It shouldn't be allowed or rather it should be fixed. The fix is as simple as causing the mercs to go passive after 15 to 30 minutes of inactivity.
  4. Tarrin Augur

    In that case, I can't wait for your crusade to get people in trouble that use FD as a pulling mechanic begins.
  5. Brosa Augur

    In this instance the game will police itself. If players see this and they perceive it as egregious then they, as other posters have specified, cast judgment upon them via train. Generally I just let these people be unless it interferes with my game play. Such as its a camp I need/want.

    We cant ask the devs to cause mercs not to react when the PC isn't available at the moment. How many times have we all been in group with some one possessing a in group merc that needs to afk for X amount of time. Something happens in RL and the PC needs to go AFK immediately for whatever reason for X amount of time. That would be unfair to put in a code making their merc not react either.
  6. Rauven Augur


    Someone who is afk for more 30 minutes probably needs to be replaced. Most games out there log people out at that point.
  7. Brosa Augur

    Fair enough but I group with the same people all the time and are good friends. If they have to afk for what ever reason and "leach" exp for a while its not a big deal to me. Everyone in this thread need to consider all situations. I understand the frustration but really is it effecting us that much?
  8. Edrick Augur

    I don't think a developer would comment on it since it isn't their job. So such a quote likely does not exist. You win.

    I also haven't seen any evidence that unicorns don't exist, so I'm going to assume they are real.
    Iila and Denial_Sinfae like this.
  9. Denial_Sinfae Augur


    Devs... Developer... Develops .... or... Create content. They don't create rules. They create additions to the game.

    Customer Service Representatives... CSRs... GMs... Those who manage the game, the people within it, and respond to said people with lame complaints... Enforce the rules.

    The post cited by Edrick clearly show what side of the line the CSRs/GMs (remember, these guys enforce policies within the game, or rules, or however you want to word a rebuttal) are on.

    There's not really anything else to see here.

    Wanting a Dev response to AFK killing is like asking your Teacher why Coach benched you. The teacher can go find out, but it's not their call.
    Mykaylla likes this.
  10. Rauven Augur


    Believe me I do the same thing.. but after 30 min.. I'd rather they were autologged. It usually means they conked out for the night and not being logged in means less mishaps.

    As for the effect. The complaints were pretty loud in the PoWar thread about it. And I did see more than a few complaints on my server's general chat.
  11. Crowbeard Journeyman


    Why do you consider taking the auto-grant to be cheating? It was purposefully put in the game for us to use.
    However, going afk for 6+ hours while your mercs kill everything for you, is not okay.

    To answer everyone's posts. Yes, I have multiple accounts and could do this if I wanted. Do I? No. Why? Because it is an exploit and should not be available and should have a ban-able consequence to it.

    The definition of exploit: "use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way."

    Not everyone has 3 accounts and can do this. It is selfish, because they are taking up an area of the game where the mobs will auto agro them. Also, if someone trains them and get caught, that person will get in trouble and not the afk'ers.

    The auto-grant feature is not cheating or an exploit because it was given to everyone. With this, not everyone can do it.
  12. Iila Augur

    You literally didn't get the point of his post.

    There is simply not going to be a dev response to everything in game not being an exploit. So going by Rauven's restrictive ruleset ideal, anything that a has not explicitly been ruled an exploit, by a dev, must be an exploit. That's the point of Feindan's post, not that auto-grant is actually an exploit.

    Merc AFK campers aren't very disruptive to gameplay, quests or camps. By official SoE standards, there are no camps. So if you need a spawn that's next to one of the afk characters, just aggro it first. By community standards, that would be a crappy move to a real group. But an AFK group won't care, because there's no one there to see it. They can't actually take up that many spawn points, so if you want to camp a spot in that area, move a bit further away, or grab their mobs when the spawn.

    If you see AFK botted groups where the characters are being automated by a 3rd party program, report them. That is not allowed at all.
    feiddan likes this.
  13. Falos Augur

    I believe it was zatozia back in underfoot / late sod that said afk merc killing is not against any rules if the person isnt using third party programs to assist in the killing with their characters while they are afk.


    I believe she mentioned it was a grey area but I don't have a link to the specific post - it isnt against the rules though as long as the people are not auto-botting their toons.
  14. feiddan Augur


    Basically every point in your post could be made about the autogrant. I'll even substitute the words:

    Why do you consider mercs and AFK exp to be cheating? Mercs were purposefully put in the game for us to use.
    However, getting as many as 6k+ aa's for doing absolutely nothing, is not okay.



    Merc AFK exp is not cheating or an exploit because the option is available to everyone. The auto-grant, however, not everyone can do it (it's limited to gold subscribers, after all).
  15. Shadva Del`Shai Augur


    I absolutely love the rampant and extremely obvious sarcasm on this post :) I'm totally amazed that someone actually took it seriously.

    As for going afk and letting mercs do the killing, if folks have the plat to waste, more power to them. Chances are, they're in a (mostly) out of the way spot and probably not getting loads of xp from it.

    Now, about what the devs designed mercs for... I believe that mercs were invented for EQ to fill spots in groups until a live player could be found to fill the spot. I DON'T believe that mercs were intended to be used to the exclusion of live players. I believe that mercs were intended to be a stop-gap that allowed folks to xp while looking for other live people to come join them. However, just because I believe this, doesn't make it true. It's how I think mercs should be used. It's my opinion.

    Just because YOU think being afk and letting mercs do the killing is wrong, doesn't mean it is. Just because players found new and different ways to use mercs, doesn't mean it's an exploit.

    As for everyone not being able to do it, bummer. Not everyone cast spells while running either...

    People just need to stop finding stupid stuff to whine about.
  16. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    As far as the Dev's are concerned, AFK'ing while mercs kill falls into the same category as AFK'ing while a pet kills. You can even up dead and loose more xp than you gain from it; plus in the case of Merc AFK'ing you are also expending plat every 15 min. If there is 3rd party unattended automation then that is not allowed but just afk'ing while your mercs or pets kill is allowed.

    For those who care, you have to go digging through the Archived forums to find the posts from the Dev's as they resolved this issue like 4 - 5 years ago. You would also likely need to dig through all of the different chats that the Dev's had in that time as it is entirely possible that they stated their stance on AFK merc xp'ing during a Dev chat, pod cast, or some similar non forum location.

    I think that we all need to start a thread which just is quotes of Dev replies to controversial topics like this was way back when.
  17. Rauven Augur


    I did a search and nothing popped up.

    The point is, yes we know its allowed, Currently. The point that the OP is making is that should be changed. There was a claim that there were 15+ people in grounds on Test doing this. I dunno if you all have been to grounds, but that's a very small zone. That number of people in there doing this would cause zone disruption and make it very hard to do hotzone quests. Its a 90 hotzone that is remarkably easier than the other 90 hotzone, Valley. Some like to grind there before doing Valley.

    There's a couple of alternatives here. We could just report them for AFK macroing. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Its up to the perception of the investigating GM. Or we could have a policy change, and then people could do this at their own peril. Or have a system setup to auto passive the mercs. Code's already in there to do it, just have to make it mandatory.

    The interesting thing is how opposed some of you are to this. You claim its harmless, you claim its not disrupting anything. If it doesn't bother you, why oppose it? Are you afraid of it being changed? If you're honestly indifferent, why post anything at all?

    Some of you have been rather sarcastic and making red herring arguments such as suggesting I'm going to go on a crusade about FD pulling or going on about AA auto grants. Not only is that a sign of a weak argument. But also guilt. As in you know what you are doing (probably the AFK grinding) isn't proper.

    Instead of doing that. Lets see the Pro's of keeping AFK grinding over not keeping it instead. Give me positive reasons that helps the people around you for keeping this playstyle in the game. If you support AFK grinding. Please let me know the reasons why. Don't resort to red herrings and ad hominem attacks.
    Xzenote likes this.
  18. Xzenote New Member

    Not a claim, it's the truth normally 3/4 people at ZI with merc's another group in middle with 3+3 merc's and 6/9 over by the pond, truly I really don't care, I just think it dumb to do because why play if your not ummm going to play? But I do my shaman's dailies and move on to Valley.
  19. Rauven Augur


    I don't play on test so all I can do is call it a claim. But I have seen it on Vox and it gets rather annoying when getting certain dailies done when they are camping spots where those quest mobs spawn a bit more frequently.

    And then you have The Hole where the 55ish area is perma camped by AFKers. Usually by peeps who the mobs are green and dark blue to.
    Xzenote likes this.
  20. Mithrandyr Augur

    The day that I let another person's playstyle dictate my enjoyment of the game will be the day that EQ holds no more enjoyment for me.