AE SPELLS for magicians

Discussion in 'Casters' started by fortuneteller, Jan 15, 2023.

  1. fortuneteller Augur

    Am leveling a magician up, made through heroic 100, and am 110...
    Any ae spells u can use on a rotation, bind ?
    Which and why
  2. Cicelee Augur

    Don't quote me on the numbers, but I think 1% of the time in a specific situation using rain spells result in 0.1% DPS increase.

    Or if you don't want to go that extreme of min/max then you just do your RS- Spear- Chaotic- Spear- Chaotic rotation and do 99.9999% of what you can do.
    Waitwhat likes this.
  3. Badname3245 Lorekeeper

    Would love to see some Sancus math on this but I would imagine if there are a certain number of targets up no way AE doesn’t beat a single target rotation by a much larger percent.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    I'm actually pretty interested in the math for this also. My current group has 3x mages in it and I'm curious how strong AE is at what target count and what the right multibind order is. Like Cicelee says I feel like without really specific circumstances (Namely, circumstances that include an enchanter I don't have keeping everything stun locked) it'd be hard to beat a single target multibind.
  5. Cicelee Augur

    So IIRC if there are five or more targets up, then beams become more beneficial and do more DPS. I guess my assumption (and you know what happens when one assumes) is that the OP is talking about the group game, where generally groups have 1-3 mobs at most at a time on ETW. OP did not specify if their situation was molo, group or raid.

    Now on TOL raids, I personally use Thaumaturge Focus (whatever the AA is that boosts magic DPS) at the start of events and chain cast magic beam since there is so many at the start on 2 of the 3 events. Once I get down to 4 or less targets I switch to single target. I have found in my limited experience so far with these events that named goes active after Thaumaturge Focus fades, so I can still use Skyfire for single target. Now I don't have a lot of experience with beams, so I don't know if I should be weaving in RS, Many and/or Chaotic when beaming or if it is just chain beam. I will need to read up on that usage as well as continue to experiment. But I believe the best use of beams on TOL raids so far is initially on trash using magic beam and Focus.
  6. Szilent Augur

    you just mean the additional duration Skyfire has, yeah? cause those stack

    Thaumaturge's Focus XXII
    8: Increase Spell Damage by 78% to 88% (v461, Before Crit)

    Heart of Skyfire XXX
    3: Increase Spell Damage by 100% to 150% (v124, Before DoT Crit, After Nuke Crit)

    separate SPAs
    Sancus likes this.
  7. Cicelee Augur

    I won't lie, never knew those two stacked. I guess I should Sancus more...
  8. Brickhaus Augur

    EQ Mage DPS Tool (

    You can use the tool (set to Magician, not Wizard at the top) to see average damage from spell weaves based on. For older settings, change dps in the URL to the expansion abbreviation that you are currently on (i.e. for 110 settings). I'm pretty confident in the current version, but it is possible that the older versions may have a few errors (I'm not sure if the older pages' codebase are updated along with the main when errors/changes are made).

    You can change the parameters for AE targets and get a feel for your break even points for ae spells vs single target ones (both with burns and no burns).

    I had thought all top tier raiders would be using this wonderful resource for initial planning for weaves, burn combos, etc.
  9. tsiawdroi TittyGOAT

    beaming so good!

    this guy cragzop use to be the ae master for wizards. wish he still played
  10. strongbus Augur

    that link is nice for mage/wiz is there one for other classes?
  11. Badname3245 Lorekeeper

    I don't fully get the tool but from dinking around it seems like burn or not if there are 3 mobs to hit Rains or Beam needs to be in your lineup. It doesn't seem to be 1% difference.
  12. Silu Elder

    Related question: If one uses RS -> Fire Beam, do all beam hits get the synergy bonus, or just the first one that hits? In short, should one RS -> Fire Beam or just Beam -> Beam?

    Note: Conjurer's Synergy effect fire spells only, so I am not asking about Magic beam + thaumaturgist, which should just be Beam -> Beam.
  13. Sancus Augur

    Just the first hit.
    The exact breakpoints for AEs (and, as importantly, how much to AE) depend heavily on external factors. If you're seeing Rains in particular as viable in all scenarios with 3 mobs, something about how you're setting it up is wrong (they're crit capped after all).

    The abundance of scenario-specific break-points is why I haven't really chimed in here. I have guidelines I give people in fully supported raid groups, but group and solo content is a whole other ballgame with an even wider array of scenarios before even throwing in things like not being max level.
    The older pages don't change. They're still better than nothing, but definitely take them with a grain of salt. There are some bug fixes that they're missing, but most importantly a lot of retroactive AA changes (particularly from ToV) won't be reflected in earlier versions.
  14. Silu Elder

    Ah, in that case, when it makes sense to fire beam on raids (vs group/solo, where you might want the pets to tank/wall a mob), it likely is best to just chain fire beams vs alternating RS -> Beam.
  15. Cicelee Augur

    IMHO at the start of an event, I use magic beams with Thaumaturge and (now, thanks to the S'es) Skyfire. I find by the time Thaumaturge fades, then beaming opportunities diminish and I go to single target. When those beaming opportunities arise, then I use fire.

    Unless I do the pre burn routine, which gives me two Thaumaturge opportunities. I can then use that second one for later beam opportunities during the event.
  16. fortuneteller Augur

    but i guess it is worth using rs->beam on example queen,
    rs -> BF(while Thau)
    rs -> BoMO(while heart)
  17. Silu Elder

    RS doesn't boost magic beams, rationale for RS -> magic beam?
  18. Badname3245 Lorekeeper

    I'd love to hear the raid group points to pass along to mages who don't have the time or game knowledge to figure this out.
  19. Brickhaus Augur

    The key is - do your raid off tanks pile up the adds? Because if that's not happening, ae efficiency is not very good. When I raided, it could be a struggle to get off tanks to position adds tightly.

    Assuming you've done that, the best thing to do is ... just try it. Have mages do events with adds with and without aes and look at the parses (wizards too). There are tools like Kizant's dps webpage that can help you plan, but sometimes you just have to say I'm going to try X this week and compare.

    When I was a caster raiding main, trying new things during raids was a great way to break up the monotony of spring/summer raiding.
  20. Sancus Augur

    I don't know if this is what he or she was getting at, but there definitely are situations where you'd use an RS -> Beam (or RS -> Barrage -> Beam) weave. It's not because RS helps your next Beam cast, but rather that RS (and Barrage) are just very high damage spells. It takes a lot of targets for a Beam cast to do more DPS than them.
    With the disclaimer that this can still vary quite a bit in a raid setting, the rough break points are:

    Sustained (No TF): RS -> Barrage -> Beam becomes viable around 5-6 mobs. If you don't have a boss to target (and therefore you're getting less than the max hit on Barrage), you can do RS -> Beam at the same mob count.
    Sustained (TF): RS -> Barrage -> Beam with 3+ mobs. If you aren't getting the max hit on Barrage, you can drop it (and do RS -> Beam or just Beam) when you're around 7 targets.
    Burn (TF): RS -> Barrage -> Beam with 3+ mobs, just spam Beam with 8+. If you aren't getting the max hit on Barrage, you can just spam Beam at a lower target count (4-5 mobs).

    There's always some need to adapt those to actual raid scenarios. Spell ADPS generally benefits Beams a bit more than our single target weave (and particularly more than RS). You can be more selective about Beaming when you have a boss up at the same time to damage. If you're just fighting adds that die fast/don't have a lot of pets on them, you may benefit leaning into Beams more than expressed above (even RS will do less damage if you have to constantly redirect your pets).

    Like Brickhaus said, there's also a difference between having targets up and targets in your Beam area. The number of single target spells you drop from your weave depends on how confident you are that your Beams are actually hitting the targets. A big thing with Beaming is not thinking of our single target weave as monolithic; there's a lot of room in between "all single target spells" and "spam beam" to work with in different scenarios.