Accounts hacked and stripped

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by Yurri, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Warpeace Augur

    Funny how you evade your own responsibility in all this yet you attack me and my character because you don't like the answer.
    Perplexed likes this.
  2. buffalou New Member

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ok - did you ever think that the people responding to you were in the exact same position & learned the hard way that you are always accountable for yr acct. Someone may have been looking over your shoulder or friends and saw logon and gotten hints from you or friend about passwords. Happens.
    As far as Daybreak resolving your problem - be prepared for a month or 2 of wait time - while they tell you they can't do anything about it.
    SO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD and don't give out even to YOUR FRIEND.

    Also if you think 90k is a lot in Progression Server - you don't know much about making honest money or selling Kronos.

    Buffalou
    Perplexed likes this.
  3. Yurri1 New Member

    I think I'm going to draw a line under this subject. There is obviously a lack of moral fiber in the EQ community, from the posts here, and the response I got from Daybreak.

    When people can defend the indefensible there is no logic in continually arguing. I hope the the people defending this theft are not on the receiving end, and are not made to realize how un-ethical and Darwinian their outlook on life is.

    When someone is robbed, whether they are vulnerable by their own choices , or not (and I believe I am not) - action should be taken. Criminals look exactly for vulnerability and impunity. Perception of fault is greatly misplaced, and victims of crimes do not invite them through vulnerability. Acts such should receive a swift response, and the instigators should be punished. When we start to not act on crimes because we perceive guilt in the victims we are in great trouble.

    (Yes I know 90k isn't much, and I have 40+ krono also, it was a reference to the value of gear taken).

    "Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."

    Haile Salassie
  4. Sindaiann Augur


    Bahhahaha that's the best thing I have ever read!
    Burstaf likes this.
  5. Picaresque Augur

    Actually, yes.

    The indemnification language in many (if not most or all) on line financial institutions contains the provision that if you share your login credentials with another, then the financial institution may not required to restore your account balance.

    I have worked on this issue for more than five years with financial reporters and companies. It's there. Once you give another the information you lose control over its dissemination.
  6. code-zero Augur

    My son in law had his best friend in high school sell his Ultima Online account way back before EQ was ever released.
    Burstaf likes this.
  7. Trashed New Member

    Thats enough right there to get banned. But CS is too lazy.
  8. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    You should never use the same password on different sites but here is an interesting place you can check to see if your info has been hacked on various sites. https://haveibeenpwned.com/ Read about this site on the BBC new site.
  9. Igniz Augur


    I understand that you are furious and don't respond well to people pointing out to you that password security is your own business. I understand that you demand repercussions for people infringing on your gameplay / fun. But please consider using your brain before trying to brand people as thieves out of your hurt pride. It is your inaction, as the one who could have acted (chose a more secure password) and you, who should have known better (than to share your log-in details, or mayhaps reusing old ones) that lead to this situation. Insulting other players won't change that. If you still think you did nothing wrong, let me point out the following:


    1. Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor child. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement. By clicking the "I Accept" button and providing us with a credit card number, you represent that you are an adult and are either accepting this Agreement on behalf of yourself or your child. You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Corporations and other entities are not eligible to procure Accounts.

    [...]
    4. Upon registration, you must select a password. You may not disclose your password to any third party. We never ask you for your password by telephone or email, and you should not disclose it this way if someone asks you to do so. There may be an additional charge to reissue lost passwords. Although we may offer a feature that allows you to "save" or "remember" your password on your hard drive, please note that third parties may be able to access your computer and thus your Account. You agree not to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to indemnify and hold SOE and its affiliated companies, officers, directors, employees and agents harmless from any improper or illegal use of your Account, including, without limitation, arising from your disclosure of your password to a third party or your allowing someone else to use your Account. Your Account may be subject to suspension or termination if you let someone else use it inappropriately or if you or anyone else using your Account violates this Agreement or The Station Terms of Service, which are incorporated herein.

    6. We may suspend and/or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement, The Station Terms of Service or repeatedly infringe any third party intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon gameplay, chat or any activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Games, including as may be set forth in the player rules of conduct, which may be posted at http://services.station.sony.com/en/procedures.jsp . The player rules of conduct are subject to change at any time, in our sole discretion. If we terminate this Agreement under these circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the balance of any prepaid period without any refund. We may also terminate this Agreement if we decide, in our sole discretion, to discontinue offering the Games, in which case we may provide you with a prorated refund of any prepaid amounts.

    End User License Agreement
  10. Cicelee Augur

    When did society change to where there is literally zero personal accountability for the majority of situations in all walks of life? Where it is everyone's fault but the individual?

    Look. When you sign onto play EQ, you agree each time to their EULA. In it, it states several times (as indicated by quotes in this thread) not to share your account and password with anyone.

    So what do you do? You share your account and password. Fine. You broke the EULA, which means you pay for any potential consequences that may happen. In your case a lost character.

    Chalk this up to a learning experience. Then again judging by your responses in this thread, you are just merely another individual that I alluded to in the first two sentences of this reply...
    Mayfaire likes this.
  11. Blankslate Elder

    Pro Tip: Don't share account information.

    That is all
  12. Leex Pewpewer


    As many people here have already stated, the fact that you've shared your account information is against the EULA, period. So just on that merit you'd never receive help anyway.

    Now I just want you to think about something, you may have not shared the account information but what about the other person? He may not have intentionally jeopardized the account, but possibly did so without thinking..

    CS probably didn't help you at all because they could see the multiple logins on the account..Hope you have fun on the TLP, don't share your information with anyone and you won't have this issue, period.

    Good luck :cool:
  13. josh Augur

    What the heck? Yurri is absolutely correct. Have people just not been reading what he's said for the past few posts. THE PEOPLE WHO STOLE HIS STUFF SHOULD BE BANNED. Even if he stole the stuff himself and then made a false report, the theft should be investigated and the criminals should be banned. End of the freakin discussion. There is no ambiguity there, it has nothing to do with yurri getting his stuff back. The criminals should be tracked down and banned. "Well he shouldn't have given his password out" is not a defense for the criminals. They're still criminals even if he made their job easy. Fine, he doesn't get his stuff back, but the matter should be investigated and the offending parties should be banned. I understand daybreak might not have the resources to do that at the moment but...still...all of you upset at him are just ridiculous given what he's stated.
    Arderd and Crowd likes this.
  14. Picaresque Augur


    Well, Yurri began his postings lambasting DBG customer service while ignoring that he shared his login credentials with a friend. We were responding mostly to that set of circumstances.
    Since you brought up the "defense of the criminals" argument, take a look at it from another perspective. What if the friend sold the gear for real money and "delivered" the gear on line (this used to be done a decade or more ago in EQ and was the subject of a few articles, including in the NY Times). Friend claims innocence. Yurri believes him. DBG looks at the trail and sees only that a sign in occurred (maybe from an unknown computer) and gear was transferred. It has to assume that the buyer is acting in good faith and the "friend" is transferring gear from an account to which he has access.
    Now, unless you want to argue that the friend is the offender, I don't see how this ever gets resolved. Moreover, why should DBG (or Verant at the beginning or SOE later) expend valuable resources to track this down? It's very possible that the buyer acted in good faith. Maybe the sign in occurred from an unknown computer. Maybe it occurred using a proxy server. Maybe . . . why should DBG go through the expense, especially when Yurri admitted he violated the EULA by giving his access to another?
    I don't think we are upset at him. It's just that he was trashing the company (admittedly an easy thing to do on these boards) when he was in the wrong, notwithstanding that he believes his friend.
  15. Arderd and Crowd Augur


    This is a joke, right? Or are you seriously missing the whole point?
    The point is, there are thieves and things were removed from the characters to other characters, either money was exchanged - in which case follow the money, or it wasn't. RMT isn't legal and violates the EULA doesn't it anyway (besides he said it was less than like 10 bucks worth of gear)? Really is very simple.
    It's not about finding justice for Yurri, it's about punishing criminals, duh.

    Sometimes you have to wonder whether people are just posting to troll and be contradictory, it's the only explanation surely.
  16. Igniz Augur

    Could that not also be because you funny guys throw around insults in all your posts?
    Also, if yurr1's (and friends) communication here is any indication, I think I have a pretty goood idea how customer service was adressed. As a CS, I'd take that particular enquiry and move it to the bottom of the pile.

    I think you will find that we all agree that "criminals must be punished", to use your paraphrases, no matter the joint guilt of yurr1 (or friends). Alas, I doubt, somehow would really try to "hack an account" for the allegedly little value of the gear. So, this basically boils down to one of the following possibilities:

    1: Yurr1 sold the gear himself and reported a false claim
    2: Friend of Yurr1 with login details sold the gear or compromised the login details to a third party
    3: Yurr1's login-details were not safe enough (character name = login name, simple password, reused password, etc.)
    4: Yurr1's claim of only one person having his login details is simply a lie
    5: Yurr1 actually pissed someone off enough to warrant a feeling of wanting revenge (pretty probable, given his mode of communication) and said person happens to really have knowledge as to force his entry into a secure database without triggering the mechanisms in place to prevent exactly this kind of brute-force acess (not so probable).

    In four out of five of the above cases, "follow the money/items and ban them" could result in the punishment of innocent buyers, who acted in good faith. Personally, when I buy something, be it in game or in real life, I don't automatically assume that I am buying fenced goods. Proving that the buyer(s) violated the EULA or any real life laws that might be applicable might be quite hard.

    Edit: if you still feel the urge to point out that I contradict you out of spite, please refer to the bottom line of my signature.
    Your_Ad_Here and Mayfaire like this.
  17. Perplexed Augur

    yes, kill the messenger always easier than accepting responsibility.
  18. Picaresque Augur

    If anyone is missing the point, it is you. You want DBG to expend resources to track down who "stole" Yurri's gear. Why is that their responsibility? Why should they expend resources? Why would you assume that the buyer or receiver of the gear was the one who also logged into Yurri's account, unless perhaps it was the friend?

    Back in the early part of this game (ca. 2003-2004), people would sell their stuff on line for real money and then petition EQ to get it back claiming that it was stolen. That is one of the reasons that the EULA is written the way it is. They also sold their characters and then used the credit card information to try to get the characters back. Who is to say that Yurri's post isn't a scam? Who do you think has any proof one way of the other?

    "Follow the money" is a nice phrase, but if the gear was sold on line a subpoena would be required and that just is not going to happen.To think otherwise would be the height of naivete.

    I understand the emotion surrounding this matter. I'm just jaded enough to think that the highest probability event is that either Yurri or his friend were involved.

    No matter. DBG is not the bad guy here. It was not their server that was hacked. (Had that been the case, hundreds if not thousands of complaints would be flooding the forum.) They don't know if this is legitimate or a scam and they have no obligation to expend resources to try to find out.

    You might not like that, but it is the way the business world works.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  19. Arderd and Crowd Augur

    wow - no wonder Yurri stopped replying. Missed the point, again.
  20. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Well here is the big problem. If Daybreak investigates and finds that the account has only been accessed by someone using the proper account name and password how do they prove that a crime was committed?

    I agree if we knew for sure the items were stolen ban the person who stole them. Problem is if the account is accessed normally there is no way to prove there was a crime committed.

    If this were RL it would be a lot easier to prove whether someone had the keys to a person's car legally or illegally. But think about the amount of money spent by a police department in investigating and proving that? We never think about that because it is all covered by our taxes. Do you expect gaming companies to hire private investigators to investigate and prove whether the person who accessed the account did so with or without the original users permission? Its just not possible.

    The best Daybreak can do is ensure that they were not hacked somehow to get access to the character. Maybe they go a bit further but probably not much. It's just not realistic.

    Tell me how you prove someone accessed the account without permission? An IP in Russia or China doesn't mean much because people can sell accounts or items around the world.

    Instead of arguing about punishing people we should concentrate on things Daybreak can do to prevent this from happening.

    Easiest thing I can think of is requiring confirmation via email whenever an account is logged in from a different computer. No idea how expensive that is to set up by Daybreak though. They are a business and this is a 16 year old game so that option may not be worth investing in from Daybreak's perspective.