Discussion in 'Resolved' started by Cragzop, Feb 6, 2021.
Your speculative fix, FAILED. SSDD
In beta the shadow aura gave a proc (didn't show in buff window iirc and ONLY showed in that persons log) that when hit 20 times by it it would unlock the golem, i have not seen the need for it on live maybe you are doing that and it is causing a lock
Yes - that is true, and yes, that has been bugged on live for awhile in that you didn't need it and prior to today's patch, the proc hasn't been working on live - it didn't give the progress message (successful confirmation of the hit etc). However, as of today, that is now working, and Grolik no longer spawns unlocked and you must unlock it.
Once we unlocked it, we made sure nobody had the proc (or even went into the shadow aura after that, or had echo of shadow) and it still did the "unlock" mechanism and caused Grolik to shoot up from just under 60% to 87% and was unable to unlock again even using the lock mechanism again intentionally at that point.
Its also worth mentioning (again) that 3 things always happen in tandem, when it happens. i.e. All 3 of these things happen simultaneously. Anytime we get the extra unlock (which is every run) it always exactly coincides with a successful shadow orb delivery into the shadow aura, however; we have many shadow orbs into shadow auras that do not trip this unlock condition. Interestingly, we did have this happen prior to 87% and while we got the barrier fall message, the event proceeded as normal regardless. However, in every instance where it happens afterwards (which is every single run we've done now); it regens/locks permanently.
1: Successful shadow orb delivery into shadow aura.
2: Barrier falls indicating the unlock mechanism was triggered.
3: Regen of Grolik to 87%.
For example, we had 20 successful shadow orb deliveries into shadow auras, but not 20 barrier falls.
i believe i may have stumbled onto a pattern, which had gone undetected due to messages that also weren't working properly, but are now. in any case, even if its just a case of bad late night mental gymnastics, I reported that data onward privately. It can be hard to know for sure because the vast majority of my data is from before today. We raided today primarily because we were hoping for this fix so we didn’t do as many runs as we would normally do.
So to recap:
The problem isn't the "intentional" unlocking of Grolik, which we know how to do and successfully completed every run last night.
In fact I'm going to change my verbage to make this more clear.
Every time we have the "bug out" happens, an unintended unintentional barrier fall message comes - i.e. we did NOT do the unlock sequence here - exactly at the same moment we drop the shadow orb into the shadow aura. The orb and aura combination should not have any bearing on the locked or unlocked state of Grolik, but clearly it is related to the "bug out" as every single run, including back on beta, that we get the "bug out", this happens, clearly, distinctly, and repetitively *every single time, at the exact same moment in the same sequence*.
02/17/21 07:17:24 PM The massive golem's protective barrier falls.
02/17/21 07:17:24 PM The energy of the shadow orb merges with the pillar and stabilizes some of the pillar energies.
At this moment, Grolik instantly regens to 87% and is permanently stuck there.
02/17/21 06:04:47 PM The massive golem's protective barrier falls.
02/17/21 06:04:47 PM The energy of the shadow orb merges with the pillar and stabilizes some of the pillar energies.
At this moment, Grolik instantly regens to 87% and is permanently stuck there.
02/17/21 06:35:23 PM The massive golem's protective barrier falls.
02/17/21 06:35:23 PM The energy of the shadow orb merges with the pillar and stabilizes some of the pillar energies.
At this moment, Grolik instantly regens to 87% and is permanently stuck there.
This only happens with the "bug out" and not with the intentional mechanism to "unlock" Grolik health.
Also, for the folks that come through and read this later because you were out of the office or whatever - I understand the frustration is starting to bleed through in some of my folks' posts (and probably mine). Please understand its just that - frustration coupled with relentless battering against this thing in an attempt to get "lucky" or develop a coping strategy to get around it. We're willing to do whatever it takes to help this get solved.
i would suggest you revert the changes made and hotfix, also remove every line related to hp locking and 87 percent
Has the fix made it worse ? If only there was a test server ?
For us not worse just the same.
Been there for each and every one, and it's become like the most boring and tedious task you have to do as a part of your job - your least favorite bit.
Oh, we're super clean at this point - we effectively have the raid on farm - except there is no win, just a stein out at the end, with a sizable helping of frustration.
It's frankly taken much of the luster off of raid night, and I see no evidence that anyone on the dev side cares to address it in a serious way.
We've invited devs along so they can analyze and debug this issue in real time - NOW is the time to take us up on this offer!
The fact that we did report this waaaaay back in beta, but it was dismissed out of hand, rather than taken seriously, just adds insult to injury.
It's hard to shake the sense that none of those that actually created this bugged raid seem interested in putting anywhere near the level of effort into solving this that we put into trying to solve it from our side.
As Adetia said,
, and the fact that it's costing us - and will continue to do so - in terms of gearing our crew up (already an uphill climb due to the coin choices made on the development side) is absolutely maddening.
It would be nice if we felt that our love for this game, and the heart and effort that we put into it, was reciprocated in some small measure by DBG. Given the events of past months as relate to Aary raid, it's not possible to make a persuasive case for that. I'd love to see this change before *next* month's "speculative fix" confirms it. Time to show us some love, DBG.
I'm sure there are those that think we are just complaining or are trying to get a hard raid "nerfed".
Thats not what this is. On CoV open day we go and kill Sontalak ended up 4th ( which included him running off at 2% so that took an extra 4 mins or so to kill him essentially twice ). We tried Aary 3 or 4 times , got lock bug each time so headed over to Crusaders ended up 7th overall on that. Went back to Aary ( still at this point only 5 guilds had beat it ) we tried it a few more times and same thing. One run it let us take it to 28% before hitting the YoYo back to 87%. We have seen him lock at 87% from about any percent he was at at the time.
We have tried every combo of not hitting him with this aura buff to hitting him with that one.
We have a working strat, we are not limping through this raid, everything is tanked, picked up , moved to aura, we are not getting silenced etc etc etc. When he locks we gate out and try again. We are not losing to the given mechanics. Maybe not everyone knows Township Rebellion but this is a good group of players, we don't complain about how hard an event is. This is us complaining about an event that needs to be fixed and is broken in its current state.
Its a fun event really but its just not working.
We privately streamed our last run last night, and some people who are in guilds who have successfully beat the raid watched, and they only really had a few comments, of which mostly it was "wait... you guys don't miss getting ANY orbs into the right auras? You don't have ANY triple orb explosions? You're WAY cleaner and tighter and less hectic than any of our wins" except... we don't have win still because 100% of our runs to date have locked back to 87% and resulted in us gating out.
When even guilds that have cleared it multiple times now not only cant find fault with our execution, but say we're doing it better than them, yet we still don't have a win... it's really draining the will of the raiders to even bother logging in at this point.
Back in beta, once we learned all the proper mechanics, the 87% reset/ lock was the result of every run then as well, and we reported it in the beta servers, and had a bunch of other guilds jumping on us saying "you just don't know what you're doing , git gud luz!" and claiming that nothing was wrong. Obviously we knew what we were talking about...
To date, I do not believe any guild that has beat this raid actually had to deal with the unlocking mechanic "as intended" since it was broken before Feb patch. As of yesterday's patch grolik now spawns HP locked at 100 and you have to unlock him again (as it was on beta) but still randomly pops back up to 87% and hp locks forever. I would honestly say just get rid of any hp lock at all, just remove the code from the event completely. It obviously doesn't actually change the difficulty of the raid in any meaningful way and when you add in server lag, npc rubber banding, etc, the other mechanics are challenging enough even with perfect execution. Having a raid that can punish you because an NPC decides to meander slowly or follow screwy pathing and run into a wrong aura, can be maddening enough by itself without throwing other crap ontop of it.
question: are you intentionally using fire aura procs to dps grolik?
That might cause issues
We have tried that in the past and have not been doing it, we tried using procs from each Aura we could and not using them from each very strictly as part of our testing.
I do appreciate people coming in and trying to think of ideas we can try, good to see them.
I logged in to see if I was still suspended from this dumb forum just because Adetia's post made me feel bad for TR. I assume its ok at this point to lay things out.
I don't even know if we do anything to unlock the golem anymore. Someone would have to have been assigned to it because we just pull him in and start DPSing Grolik immediately with zero delay. Someone else from RoI may have that answer.
What we do:
1) DPS Aary to 55% where it goes invulnerable and eventually jumps up in the air
2) Position Grolik on the side of the rock opposite the hallway
3) DPS Grolik until 4 guardians spawn
4) Kill the 4 guardians
5) Back on Grolik until it goes underground
6) Repeat 3-5 until Grolik is dead (if Aary drops near the end before Grolik dies, just offtank Aary until golem is dead
7) Use fire procs on guardians ONLY, never on Grolik
8) Orbs are put into the right auras every time (maybe have 1 at most go in wrong one on accident a run, never had anything explode)
9) For Grolik silence, be on opposite side of rock NOT ON THE ICE AT THE BASE OF THE ROCK, out of LOS, don't be on the rock, be out in the stone floor clearing, I do not ever seem to get silenced if out there
10) Make sure anyone doing fire procs goes into fire, gets the proc charge, then goes into correct aura so no fail mechanics (only times people fail and get penalty pretty much are sometimes the shadow orb tank can't get to the right one in time after poofing their orb and gets ported, or someone wasn't on top of things to get to right one fast enough so is dropping fire fields and has to get away)
Never seen raptors. Never seen it lock on live. Did once or twice in beta when we were working on things, but never on a serious run that I recall. If it is locking 26 times in a row, it has to be something you are doing different.
Thanks for the feedback about your strat. At this point, it's not really about beating the event or doing something wrong. This is about a bug, it has been acknowledged, even the devs don't know why it locks at 87%, and they've only been able to reproduce it once. If it's a penalty or fail mechanic, the event shouldn't just lock and become invulnerable until you gate out and let the event reset. We're trying to provide feedback in order to get the event fixed and working like it should.
Thank you! I genuinely appreciate the fact that so many folks have reached out in game, via discord or here on the forums and messages. Means a lot!
Until yesterday there was no need to unlock the golem because it did not spawn locked. However, from looking at your first stream it appeared there were a couple people still doing the mechanism even though they were just going through the motions since that mechanism was no longer working properly either. It is now post patch. Accordingly, The golem also spawns locked now.
It doesn’t seem to matter what we do or don’t do.
We use essentially the same strat except different positioning, however we have tanked him in a multitude of locations and all end the same way. I’ll be honest, we’ve tried copying and recreating what we’ve seen in streams with regards to positioning, etc just in the offhand it was related, but here’s the thing. No matter where we stick grolik, whether it’s in our preferred position or near the Center pillar, or even all the way out in the hallway, it still bugs out.
We’ve tried: (Amongst other things
Changing the order orbs go in, slow steady dps on grolik, strong dps on grolik, yes to fire procs on grolik, no to fire procs on grolik, no damage in grolik while guardians are up, maintaining dps on him, burning him and cleaning up the mess, putting grolik in auras, keeping him away from all auras, pets no pets, dots no dots, no damage at all on him from people with echo of shadow once originally unlocked, never going into the shadow aura at all after unlock including orb handler, perfect orb deliverys, imperfect orb deliveries. Letting some build to three and exploding, never letting anything exploding. Clearly there is something about our raid, our composition, something an individual us doing, the lack of lag, or I don’t know what that leads us to consistently experience this bug.
We have seen it every run in beta and on live. Every single run. Twenty six is only some of those.
The “bug out” has happened to us everywhere from 28% to just under 80 so it doesn’t appear to be related to the duration of the fight, the number of aura cycles, dps pacing, or which aura is called immediately preceding the “bug out”, or how many times he has gone up and down.
I did spot a “pattern” last night from yesterday’s runs now that there is increased log messaging. (There were multiple changes to the event in the patch) But we only did a few runs so we will need a handful more for me to be able to tell if that is indeed an actual pattern past the problem I listed above with the shadow orb delivery. I did pass it on to devs but it obviously could be a wild goose chase since a sample of three isn’t very large.
We will definitely be back but honestly I’ve been really pushing my luck about as far as it will stretch in terms of extra raid time to spin our wheels while exhausting and proving/ disproving anything folks could think of or the various suggestions we have received so it will be a few days before we return.
I had a good conversation with one of the team this morning and I’m hoping the information I have provided here and directly to him are helpful and fruitful for he and absor to figure this out.
Also, forum overlords, the fixed internally tag is probably no longer appropriate.
duplicate post, not allowed to delete
We did it tonight. Took shadow orb into aura called for roar (or just another aura aside from shadow) and never locked that way. It locked every time we took shadow orb into shadow aura like you were seeing.
That’s curious! We had twenty successful deliveries of the shadow orb into auras yesterday but only three of them caused it to “bug out”. Interestingly my next thing to try next time was to intentionally fail the delivery every single time because I strongly suspected the fail mechanism was no longer working either after what we saw last night but we were pretty much perfect on execution last night so I couldn’t be sure. This gives us a pretty solid workaround. Thanks for the observation and the post!
Silence is golden
hmm never thought of, play worse. Don't put everything in its right place.
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