A new EQ in the works??

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Darktide, Jun 8, 2021.

  1. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    FFXIV is very formulaic but it is actually a solid MMO (my kid plays it) it had a rocky start but the revamped game has a hugely passionate team behind it & yeah, it has a lot of players and has earned accolades for its story & world design. Only reason I could never really get into it was I anytime I played it I wanted to be back in EQ.

    SWTOR was a very good single player RPG with a multiplayer option, I never really saw it as an MMORPG world like EQ was, it should have been so much more but that's getting away from what it does do well with the single player stories for each class being a lot of fun to play through for each.

    EQ2 I loved the crafting, did not enjoy the whack a mole combat style - mainly because with so many abilities none of them ever really felt like they had serious impact, EQ should absolutely avoid becoming any more whack a mole than it has already become or it risks falling into the same trap, or it might already have to some degree anyway.
  2. Ketzerei84 Elder

    EQ2 does have ridiculous hotbar creep, EQ1 does as well, just not quite as bad. When the game goes from 'I play my class and use this ability' to 'I play my class and created a macro to use this ability, this item, this ability, then this AA, and finally this ability' and you STILL have 4 hotbars open, it's a mess.
    Guild Wars 2 handily solved the ability creep issue the same way that the original Guild Wars did - by limiting the number of abilities you can slot at a time and only allowing changes in town(GW1) or when switching weapons(abilities tied to class/weapon in GW2).
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  3. Allworth Lorekeeper


    You mean the same "great team" that no longer exists and that has been purged via almost monthly layoffs over the years and those that finally had enough just quit and are working at Blizzard?

    There is no doubt that EQ had some talented developers over the years. It's a tragedy that they were fired or laid off.

    That said, devs like Niente and the rest of the skeleton crew are overworked, underpaid and carrying far too much of the burden on their shoulders. I hope Robin Flodin CEO of EG7 will start putting more money into staffing for EQ live and TLP servers. The lack of appropriate staffing is root cause of most of the problems in EQ and resulting frustration from the players.
  4. Atomos Augur

    A list of today's successful MMOs:
    Albion Online
    Black Desert Online
    Elder Scrolls Online
    Final Fantasy XIV, the only MMO to ever actually compete with WoW
    RuneScape (mostly Old School RuneScape version)
    World of Warcraft, which has gone downhill a lot in both quality, content, and population, though sadly it is still the top grossing MMO

    Worth mentioning is that SWTOR is not dead nor on life support, it doesn't get like mainstream MMO update frequency but it's still going. The problem with SWTOR is that it plays too much like a single player game - that said, if you like Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic, not playing SWTOR is a mistake.

    Guild Wars 2 is in a similar position as SWTOR although I do think that GW2 has a bit more players than SWTOR because it does not require a subscription (SWTOR has F2P but... barf). GW2 and SWTOR are both still successful and decent games to play but they don't compare anywhere near to the top contenders' populations.

    Final Fantasy XI is still going and has more population than EQ1. LOTRO is about on par with FFXI.

    I still can't believe EQ2 hasn't been shutdown. Along with Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online. Those games have got so few people playing them.

    Wildstar, Aion, TERA, The Secret World, Age of Conan, and Neverwinter are all junk. So was Warhammer and Vanguard.

    Pretty sure EQ1 has more players than DDO.

    Sure I'm leaving something out, but most anything else isn't worth mentioning.

    Oh, Star Citizen still hasn't launched. Pre-production began in 2010.
    Niskin and Skuz like this.
  5. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    The "new" EQ game will spawn from the spaghetti of the original. New, high-performance game engine expands the already formidable toolset already in place. Allowing such changes as more items, more buffs, more mob HP, more debuff slots, and much faster I/O and game compute.

    This new engine also opens up the opportunity to revamp the graphics engine. Current expansions will look more or less the same with some new graphics tricks. New expansions should be able to be designed with far fewer limitations. Enormous zones. Bonkers graphics. And great performance on a very wide variety of computers.

    ....that was when I woke up. :(
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  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I don't agree, and it does look to be doing some very cool things, this months update about NPC Combat AI was pretty interesting.

    Ketzerei84 and Elskidor like this.
  7. Ketzerei84 Elder

    Indeed. Pantheon: Hoax of the Fallen will come out. eventually. Unfortunately without coke-fueled 7-day coding binges to push development I'd say it's going to be even later than anticipated, but one day....

    Ashes of Creation is looking good. New World is... let's just say that I signed an NDA and still want a refund on my pre-order.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I believe we will get there eventually. :)

    If you look at EQ's history, you can see that it has happened before(2 or 3 times, I think?). I don't see any signs that it won't happen again...The dev-team has increased, and a 64bit update has more or less been confirmed.
    The question is when, and how ambitious it will be.

    The big question is, if they are ready to unravel the "spaghetti" and fix the long-standing shortcomings of the game.


    Worst case, is that they just change the compiler-setting to 64bit, and only fix the pointers/memory issues and call it a day.
  9. Vumad Augur

    We do NOT need EQ3. EQ2 split EQ and impacted our populations in a negative way. MMOs shouldn't compete with themselves. There are much better ways to do it. We need EQ REMASTERED.

    The new Mischievous Mottled Mutt graphic and animation has completely changed my perspective on a new EQ game engine. The EQ game engine has more to offer than is being used. The dogs in Qeynos look TERRIBLE!! The ToV wolves look good and the mottled mutt looks exceptional.

    What we need is Luclin graphics again. In the options, we can pick Luclin graphics or people can choose to use the old school graphics. This option needs to be updated. All of the models in original EQ need two options. If you click Classic, Qeynos will load with the original models. If you click Remastered, Qeynos will load with the most recent models. Remastered would be the default for new game downloads, as are the Luclin models.

    Design these models and animations in a way that they can work with current EQ or be rolled over into a new game engine. It spreads the investment from a front loaded maybe to a remastering of a current system. Hire just a fews devs and just have them redo every model in EQ. If remastered is successful in new account and subscription creation, it signals a go ahead with picking a new game engine and launching a dedicated remastered TLP server on that new engine.

    People can say whatever about tradeskills or whatever but EQ does not have a lore or gameplay problem. It has a population problem driven by dated graphics and laggy gameplay which is preventing new players from joining the game.
  10. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Afaik, many of the animal-models(I saw a holgresh familiar once, that was much improved compared to the models we see in HoT, for example) were upgraded, and temporarily used, and then shelved again. Mainly because some people preferred the old models for nostalgic reasons.

    I preferred the new models too, and would I love it if it was optional to use them again. :)
  11. Svann2 The Magnificent

    I dont see how they can make a whole new game when they struggle to get a new expansion out every year.
  12. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    I hated the Luclin models, with a fiery passion that rivaled the sun, when they came out. Many years later, I have accepted them. Even the Gnome models, which was my last holdout after accepting most of the others. So I'm probably open to a new look in EQ, but not a redesign of zones. Never, ever, do what was done to Freeport. The look change is fine, the geometry changes and needless conversion to the likeness of a real castle was not necessary. And again I don't mean the look of a castle, but the geometry changes to be like a castle.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Imho most of the revamps were great, I loved the new Blackburrow that came with SoD. :)

    But I have noticed a trend in games where they have big cities(not just EQ) where the look of buildings were too uniform. As if they only make a few "prefab"-sections they copy/paste over and over. That approach doesn't fit a sprawling diverse city like Freeport. Even Demiplane of Life/Decay, Chelsith and Argin-hiz, is plagued by that approach. :(
    It was acceptable in City of Bronze, which was supposed to be very militaristic and "barrack-like".
    Stymie and Skuz like this.
  14. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

  15. Atomos Augur


    History has shown the amount of cross-over for things like this is actually a lot smaller than you expect. Not that no one left EQ1 for EQ2, as there are many people who do not prefer the oldschool type MMO, and prefer the modern post-WoW games like EQ2. IMO EQ1 and EQ2 are not the same genre. An "MMO" where you can solo quest grind to max level is less of an MMO than something like EQ1, to me. Though they may share the same universe, they are two completely different games and the fact is, a lot of EQ1 players do not like EQ2.

    The same thing happened with WoW Classic. Blizzard stated they were surprised by how low the cross-over was between Retail and Classic. Even though I consider Retail and Classic WoW to be "modern MMO," the truth is that they are both completely different games.

    It's the same way with EQ Live vs. TLP.

    So I don't think that EQ2 split EQ1 at all really, instead there are just way more people who prefer or only have the time for the modern MMO, which tends to take way less of your time by removing a lot of the travel and the LFG, etc.. The modern casualized MMO makes up an extremely large majority of the MMO market. There is still a market for us old school folks, but we are definitely a minority.

    Lastly, I know you said remastered, but I recently saw an article asking which old video game deserves a remake, and my first thoughts were Everquest and Final Fantasy XI.
    Stymie likes this.
  16. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Good list. Some interesting things there. It should be noted that launching an MMO targeted at the non-Asian markets is harder to succeed at. I believe BDO and the FF MMO's benefited from being well targeted and that market not having existing whales in it. They would be more of the EQ's and WoW's of that market. Will be interesting to see what comes next for them and if it goes like our market did. FF being able to succeed with 11 and 14 is pretty good. I honestly never heard anything good about 11, so I thought it died, and that 14 was the successful second attempt.

    They somehow managed to keep it alive, I'm not sure how alive it actually is though at this point. You are right, it's not an MMO like we've all come appreciate. I played it at launch. Don't think I even subbed a month past release. Fun game for sure, no MMO appeal. As much as I wanted to play with others in this game, and had friends playing, it felt difficult to get all in once place. There were separate servers (and rulesets I want to say) and as you moved through the content you were very isolated from others who weren't in that specific content.

    Worth playing, with friends who plan to play together, stressing the plan part of it. But if it wasn't Star Wars it probably would be dead now. They did some interesting things with quest mission mechanics, but otherwise, not that notable.

    I played the original GW in beta, great concept, but it wasn't something I would jump from EQ to, so I didn't buy it at launch. Can't complain about the game at all though. As far as I know it even held up when GW2 launched. This is on my list of things I missed that would have been nice to see more of. Not a traditional MMO, more action game, but a great idea.

    FF XI is probably like their EQ, and FF14 is like EQ2 done right, or WoW. These have cross market appeal, but the base is probably in the region where FF came from. Also the IP matters. Final Fantasy, LOTR, Star Wars, DC, these games are gonna get played even if they are terrible. I guess the recent Marvel game kind of dented that perception, but that could be IP fatigue at this point.

    LOTRO was another game that didn't feel much like an MMO. If more people are playing that than EQ, then that's the IP for sure unless they made some major changes. Or it's the WoW effect, there are different kinds of gamers and EQ isn't as mainstream as WoW. LOTRO could be the same thing.

    Did not know UO was still around, wow, yeah. I do remember some people talking up UO when EQ was new, the same way I talk about EQ when people mention WoW. UO just had that thing that hardcore PvP players liked. Maybe that's it.

    DAoC I still have a warm place in my heart for, it's the closest anybody came to recreating what EQ did with interesting mechanics. Haven't played Live in a long time, but the Phoenix DAoC project kept me entertained a couple years ago. Fun game, just couldn't get my friends back into it.

    Yeah, can't argue with that. Vanguard had potential, didn't get tapped. Warhammer was fun, but was basically PvP focused WoW with an IP that is very niche. If my PC could handle the RvR battles I might have played it more, but I was broke back then and couldn't upgrade to fix the problem. TSW was just weird, interesting concept, very action game oriented. Kind of like a pre-cursor to the looter-shooters.[/quote]


    I liked DDO, but it felt very small. I was F2P though and you could feel them pushing you very early to sub. Since it's in the DBG stable now I'd consider giving it another shot. IP, IP, IP, I love D&D.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. Elskidor Augur

    A full scale exact remake with modern day graphics might be amazing or I might run to P99 missing the old graphics. There's something about these outdated graphics that never gets old to me. It doesn't matter though because a project that massive costs more than Daybreak can afford and would be way too risky even if they could. Maybe some billionaire will smoke some crack and decide they want to fund it.
  18. Accipiter Old Timer


    It's a meme at this point. Good for a laugh but that's all.
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    You know why they did it, right? They were wrong in thinking they could compete with WoW but that was the strategy.
    code-zero likes this.
  20. Atomos Augur


    FFXI's #1 flaw is that it is, to this day, still developed on PlayStation 2 Dev Kits, which pretty much always hindered its development and more importantly its advancement over the past 19 years. And that's even though they dropped PS2 and XBOX 360 support years ago.

    FFXI is actually a better EQ, in almost every single way. There's some things I like about EQ better... EQ has more races, I like the way EQ does buffs a little better (although the buff bloat is really annoying and overwhelming), and I like playing in 1st person because it's more immersive (FFXI's 1st person sucks). But FFXI does pretty much everything else better. I'm only talking about the old/"classic" era version of both games FYI, as both games current live versions are way more modern/casual/different/etc.

    FFXI is also the first game to do so many things. It was the first online RPG with cross-play (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-cross-platform-online-role-playing-game), one of the first console MMOs, one of the first MMOs to use a controller, one of the first games with a translator that let you communicate with people in other languages (loved playing with Japanese players), one of the first MMOs to let you change classes on the same character, one of the first MMOs to have subclasses (a 2nd equipable class)... it was also one of the first MMOs to try out a different subscription model, where the sub cost a bit less than everything else but you were charged $1 a month per character. I'm probably forgetting other things.

    FFXIV 1.0 was the failure, which is why FFXIV 2.0 is called A Realm Reborn. It was an actual remake of the game, with a new engine.
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