A different locked server concept

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Vumad, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Dahaman Augur


    "Alan: We have one. Play on it and we might be convinced that people actually want to play EQ PVP."

    "Alan: Sorry? Play on the current PVP server and show us that you actually want to play on one, then we can talk further."

    "Alan: Resources is a tricky word. The resources to run a server that is up and working are power and whatever maintenance is needed. Any effort we put into the game goes to all the servers, so keeping a server up isn't really an issue of resources for us. However, if too few people are on a server then it won't be any fun for anyone. Now the idea of making an new PVP server, especially after complaining that there aren't enough people on Fippy, is kind of funny. Maybe play on the existing PVP server so there will be some people for the folks there to play with. They are pretty lonely too."

    "Jonathan: I suspect you’re overestimating the cost of hosting an existing server, underestimating the cost of supporting a new ruleset, and overestimating the appeal of a PVP server."

    *** The quotes are from a question and answer session with the EQ devs.
  2. yerm Augur

    It's really not difficult or confusing to understand what will or will not result in daybreak creating a pvp based tlp. If you want one, put some effort into a proposal for one. Just keep a few should-be-obvious things in mind, and this is true for ANY new tlp proposal (nit just pvp):

    1. If your server idea requires additional human resources it is dead in the water. Full stop, no exceptions, don't go there. "It just needs a gm to..." "Just ban people for..." "Go back to enforcing..." "A single csr could..." No. Stop. Your idea is dead.

    2. If your server idea is assumed less profitable than a typical tlp idea, it is very unlikely to be given a chance - and only then should the trusted tlp models start to falter. Less likely to attract players, less likely to retain players, more limited daybreak store potential... these are a bad sign. You want to convince DBG that your game will have more people show up, more people stick around, and/or more people buying from their store.

    3. The more complicated the ruleset and in particular the more involved the setup would be for devs, the less potential they bite. Try to utilize existing rulesets/ideas in combination. Every effort to reinvent the wheel is asking a developer to do a bunch of work and testing. "Phinny timetable and xp rate, truebox on, aocs and picks off" this is easy. Start asking for corpse runs so you can have coin or item loot it adds complexity. Start asking for special team rulesets or other newfangled ideas and you risk having it just dismissed on principal.
  3. Accipiter Augur

    So you want them to publish a survey to tell them what they already know?
  4. Bewts Augur

    The problem with this is that certain servers will have thin populations as the initial surge advances.

    It’ll leave players with the choice of keeping up with the HC Jones and follow the largest population of settling somewhere where attrition comes from both those quitting and those advancing faster than you.

    Outside of constant restarts every 6 months; your server populations will dwindle quickly. And assuming they don’t wipe the intermediate servers; you’ll have BiS players returning to engage with new server entrants from a new surge. That’s bad on so many levels.
  5. Dahaman Augur

    Potential solutions for the Ladder Progression server issues:

    Artificially create monthly surges. Restrict movement across servers to happen at the end of the month (can option into the transfer queue at anytime during the month, it just happens at the end of the month). Only characters of a certain status (level & AA count) can opt to transfer over. Killing a certain raid boss OR achieving a group goal OR finishing a lengthy solo achievement is also required. It is an option between a raid, group OR solo option for this game play requirement. This will build up a pent up demand and create a surge once a month.

    Create a demand to play. Introduce a new TLP Token currency.

    - Earn 1 TLP Tokens for transferring from Ladder Server #1 to Ladder Server #2
    - Earn 2 TLP Tokens for transferring from Ladder Server #2 to Ladder Server #3

    Trade the tokens in for something that the community might truly value.

    One idea might be for the devs to create a list of potential features/updates that the tokens can be spent towards. This can put an emphasis on ideas the community wants to see done via REAL votes. The devs can prioritize the ideas with the most votes. Every time an idea is implemented, all the people who put in a token get a participation award OR get entered into a lotto for something more glamorous.

    Another idea might be to for devs to suggest new quest line ideas that might appeal to players that they can vote on to be added using a token. The new quest would apply to all live servers and belocked at a specific TLP expansion. The highest number of tokens spent towards the new quests adds priority to its implementation.

    Or any other countless things to spend the tokens on like XP buffs, special illusions, new mount, new account features, etc.

    Entice continued play on live servers with the character. Free character transfer off the final TLP Ladder Server. Gain X TLP Tokens for doing so. Give the character a month long buff to earn bonus XP (for the purpose to help catch up) on a live server. Extend that bonus a little bit by accomplishing reach goals on a live server so the character is encouraged to participate in the server.

    - logging in for the day adds +2 hours duration (once per day)
    - killing 10 experience mobs adds +1 hour duration (once per day)
    - killing a raid boss adds +4 hours duration (once per day)
    - finishing a task adds +1 hour duration (three per day)
    - joining a guild adds +24 hours (once ever)

    (you can also do this by implementing a counter that automatically puts up a 1 hour buff on a character, each accomplishment above adds 1 counter instead of 1 hour, but have the counters tick down even while the character is off line)

    Just don't add too much duration so that the buff does expire eventually.

    *** I don't play on a live server. If there is a better enticement to encourage players to extend play on live servers rather than my suggestion, then do that instead.
  6. Machen Augur

    Asking players what they want has historically not worked out well.
  7. Goburs Journeyman

    Points taken. Can’t hurt to try I suppose.
  8. Montag Augur

    I dunno man, it literally solves the main problem with coming back to EQ, no one to level with, and it helps alleviate the other main problem, the hugely fragmented playerbase.

    Just increase the exp rate there and make Agnarr the 1-65 levelling server. Bill it as a re-release or retooling of Agnarr. Maybe add some new cosmetic levelling rewards for starting a new character there and getting it to 65, minor heirloom things like say weapon adorns at 30, a metamorph at 50 and an illusion clicky at 65 or whatever, to get the existing Agnarr people into frequently levelling alts.

    Then open a new server that starts at OoW and stays locked at OoW for a little extra time before it switches to a 6 week or whatever cycle, it'd be more popular than Coirnav for sure.

    Once that hits underfoot (which would be like a year later) you open the final server HoT to Live. Now for the first time ever EQ has a non-agonizing path from level 1 to live.

    The first two servers would prob need free or heavily discounted transfers to the next server, but the third server when it catches up to live could have standard paid transfers to and from other live servers.

    My guess would be initially the 2nd server would have the new server population boom, then the 3rd server would have it's boom, then we'd settle into Agnarr having the highest pop but you'd only need really a single good guild to stay on the next two servers long term to provide a viable path to live for all time!
  9. Machen Augur

    No, it really does not. After the initial rush, no one will be playing on the starting server at any given time. Level 1-50 content is always available on every server, but the only time anyone plays it is right after a new TLP launches. By eliminating the launch of new TLP's altogether, you would eliminate people playing regularly in that content.
  10. Vumad Elder

    P99 is only 1-50 original EQ and from my reading has enough population to support regular grouping. It's a lost lead. Even if none of those people sub their presence can provide the groups required to get new subs. It's ridiculous to say so definitively that no one will play something that someone outside of the franchise owner is developing and providing for free, and people are playing it.

    Probably no one plays it because those willing to play it are divided out over 20 servers. Event on TLP people gravitate to the level cap. It doesn't matter is a MMO i free if there is no one to pay with. The whole concept of laddering is to point everyone with a like mindset to the same server and keeping caps close enough for people to group.
  11. Machen Augur

    The content on P99 is NOT the content on official DBG run servers. It is so far apart as to be a meaningless comparison today. Players can devote a ton of time to classic in P99 with the difficulty level of the content there. The content 1-50 on DBG servers is trivial due to all the cumulative increases in player power. That makes a big difference.
  12. Vumad Elder

  13. Discord Elder

    Really? Please explain that to Fippy darkpaw. Huge population left there right, enough to justify it existing still?
  14. Vumad Elder

    I hope you can appreciate how frustrating it is to read your reply and just days later there to be an announcement for a new server that is practically the same thing as an existing sever. Is it really an issue or what?

    Also It's going to have included heroic buffs? I mean... come on... seriously?

    And then this players possibly accurate observations of TLP patterns.
    "and November is probably when Mangler will start to see population start to trickle off slowly until it hits PoP, as has happened slowly on all the other Phinny Clones. Casuals really enjoy Classic > Velious, and they get left behind even more in Luclin if they aren't raiding."

    Literally everything is in place for permanently level grouped servers except the support for the idea and free upward server transfers.

    Free Classic or slightly past. Paid Agnarr. Paid this new unnamed server. One more paid ladder server that probably already exists. Include level ranges in server name. Make upward transfers free. Done.
  15. Yukface New Member

    Vumad is correct on all counts.

    stop the TLP concept all together..
    create laddered servers...
    Create a logical character transfer cost/script.
    the TLP burn and die ends..
    the farming the latest release by botters/chronofarmers ends...
    people will play on all servers because the game is different in each era.

    The mad dash through an expansion... is annoying for most of us who have jobs. I mean... in a one month progression server you can what.. hit a raid.. 4-10 times before its old content. a 70 man guild gets 1 or two items per character.
    If I am on Agnaar and I want to go get the GOD OOW experience... by the time I figure out what i like to play "in that era" the character skillsets have changed because 2 more expansions have hit.

    Let use Ranger as an example.
    new player says.. oh i like to use bows and arrows...im making a ranger... he is on kunark server... oops... he's gonna hate that... and reroll..., then 6 months later.. POP happens and he wishes he had a ranger. So he levels a ranger... and by the time he gets to raid and play the character he really wants... POP ends and rangers go back to being melee. crap that sucks for him... so he bite the bullet... and rerolls again... only to have that same process repeat... over and over again... as rangers viability with bows rolls back and forth. How is that fun ?? Laddered servers... fixes this problem

    Whoever said something about the name thing...gimme a break... not having the same name on your character is really a deal breaker?? The character transfer process is nothing new... it was done often back in the original days... and it can be done here.

    The we cant afford server thing.. is a joke. You cant afford to keep mashing the TLP burn button. You are only funding the chrono farmers. not creating a paying player experience. I know alot of people who would literally plan to play this mmo until they are dead... if they had the opportunity to max-progress at "a logical raiding BiS pace"
  16. Yukface New Member

    Easy example....
    Vex Thal.... what guild is going to ever enjoy Vex Thal in the current model. THAT is a lot of good, difficult, but fun content, that is being ignored... because it is virtually impossible to bother with it when it took 3 months of farm alone to get an entire guild keyed 20 years ago.

    I am sure people will say ... LOL.. vex thal.... But its content.. and its one of I am sure too many examples of content that is being ignored in the current model, due to the race to move on and burn out that is the current TLP grindfest....

    you need trickle IN... and trickle OUT... currently servers only have TRICKLE OUT!
  17. Yukface New Member

    Imagine... if novelist sold their books like tlps...
    you can only buy the book in chapters...
    and in 2 days the chapters you already bought... evaporate.
    that would be an awesome way to read a book. NOT!

    If the lore and the events and the gear isnt meant to be experienced by everyone... then why waste so much time doing it. The top-end raiding burn-out mentality isnt gonna survive in content that is 20 yrs old. However... the idea that I can go back and buy that 1980s corvette and drive it nice and slow now that I am older... will.
  18. Machen Augur

    Imagine if, there was only one season of NFL football ever played, and each year they just aired the reruns.
    code-zero likes this.
  19. RandomStrategy Augur

    Let's be real Ngreth...we all know the servers are actually 486s powered by hamsters.

    Though....the cost of hamster food has probably skyrocketed since 1999...

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