A bunch of class questions! Tanks, bards,enchanters and healers!

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by qaxbert, May 7, 2020.

  1. qaxbert New Member

    Doing a three box in this game. I enjoy rounding up groups of 6-7 mobs and riposite'ing them down with a tank (at least back in the day). Want to be able to experience most of the group content available to me that I have missed. I dont mind putting in the work to get a tank up to speed. I am leaning towards xxx/shaman/bard combo. My questions are:

    1.) Would a warrior or SK be better for pulling/surviving multiples while being able to hold aggro? I say this in consideration that I will most likely have a healer backing up whatever tank I use.

    2.) Is paladin a total no go for wanting to do groups of mobs?

    3.) Bard dots/dds. Are they single target only? On allakazam is says single target but Im not sure if it just hits nearby mobs if you just hit melody or not. If anyone could clarify.

    4.) Is shaman the best healer box full stop, or could i achieve more with a cleric on hard pulls (or druid)?

    5.) Are enchanters as OP'ed and indispensable as I remember? I know they made a lot of the game so much easier with their unmatched cc.

    6.) Do warriors have a big DPS advantage if I used shaman/bard for adps?

    7.) I prefer not to box a bunch of melee unless someone can convince me its not that hard to do. I heard zerkers do great dps. Can they do AOE dps?

    Sooo, some combinations I was thinking would be:


    War- Cleric-Enchanter

    Sk- Shm- Ranger

    Sk - Shm- Bard

    Sk - Cleric - Wiz

    Sk- Shm - Mag

    Pal - Enc - Wiz

    Thanks yall for any input! I do miss this great community!
  2. Vumad Augur

    I have mained ENC since I started in 03. I started boxing a cleric just before mercs launched. I took a break from HoT through ROS and added a Mage to tank for me during TBL.

    In my experience, knights are easier to heal. I mainly played with a raid paladin and more recently played with SKs a lot more. They both are easier to heal than warriors because they help heal. Warriors out perform knights when discing so on named and etc. but for the continuous pulls the spells the knights use make them much easier to heal on average.

    SK is going to outperform the other 2 on AE aggro. Warriors and paladins can handle multiples but SKs effortlessly handle a bunch. If you are going to AE with the bard and have wizard mercs on AE, then the SK is going to shine. The other 2 tanks can still do it, but a mage pet can't (not an option for you, but what I use as a tank).

    Also if you are going to pull with the tank, the SK has more utility there, however if you are going to pull with a bard/enc, which outperform SK in that regard, then that wont matter. You might prefer the DPS of a warrior or the rez/group heals of the pally. You have to decide which group utility is most valuable to you.

    ENC is a very powerful class, but if you want to swarm and reposite then the ENC CC abilities matter less. ENC do eventually get an AA AE slow and AE tash which could make more benefits than a bard in that regard. You can get ENC buffs in PoK, but bard not so much, so a bard in group with ENC buffs will out DPS not having a bard. I just vote for some sort of slow, so bard, enc, bst, shm are going to work. SHM and ENC both get a version of AE slow. SHM will be better ADPS for a tank than an ENC.

    I'm not a big believer in boxing a cleric. That might sound hypocritical because I box a cleric, but I have been playing her since before mercs so I keep her. However the cleric mercs work very well so this leads me to favor DRU/SHM for a box. A merc can't slow, track, port or forage but SHM/DRU can so I vote for more utility. However a cleric will out perform a merc because of auras, divine arb, DI, fortress, etc, so if you need to boost the tank then there are still reasons to box a cleric.

    I main ENC so that's set for me. CLR is because my best friend before mercs was a paladin and I made the cleric for us. I went mage over SK because it was easier for me to have an automated tank (mage pet, sic 'em boy) over the more demanding real tank. Also a mage pet tank is easier to gear/AA, big fan of CoH, and i try to pickup real players when I can so a mage fits in better.

    With all that said... I think...

    SK/WAR (because of the intentional over pulls). You pick.

    SHM/ENC/BRD for slow/adps

    Mag/Wiz/Dru for DPS / utility (pet backup tank, ports, forage/track/ports)

    PS. Since I am committed to my CLR but love druids, I do have a FTP druid at 109. I love her. She doesn't have TBL/ToV, but she ate a krono and is wonderful to have around for port/track/etc. I regularly port/campfire/coh so I move around incredibly fast, and can track with her, and the krono got autogrant so the double forage has been helping a lot with the new stat food. FTP wiz have different ports, etc.
    Metanis likes this.
  3. Fluid Augur

    Just my op. Warrior pays for being the best tank in game by having to spend inordinate amounts of times hunting equipment. The stuff they do to hold aggro doesn't bleed down the MOB as much as a real DPS type, it just generates hate such that the DPS can do their thing w/o drawing aggro.

    Any combination of Warrior w/o a form of DPS will be a bit slow to take down MOBs. Your first couple of teams is lacking DPS unless you are willing to charm with the Enchanter.

    Where the SK based team excel is after the SK gets their ~life stealing ability. I *think* a SK still gets this function on riposte so with the proper spells up, they are quite survivable. It's been a while since I last ran my SK so I not abreast of the current state. They are good at generating hate and damage so I find they work well in a group with squishy types of DPS like Wizards.

    Only one of your picks have a really good damage shield caster. The Enc has feedback and the Wizard has radiation. Pretty weak sauce IMO compared to a Magician or Druid.

    Of the teams you propose, I think I like the ones containing the Wizards just because of the minors they bring to the table. The Wizard can port and make a weak damage shield in addition to being good at burst DPS. It isn't a huge problem on live since you will have cleric mercs that can rez you. I just hate dying in the first place. :)

    The ones I would find the most interesting to run would be the ones with an Enchanter and the one with a Magician. I find a low level Paladin a PIA to run just because. They can save themselves with Lay of Hands and have a few perks like fighting undead. I prefer Rangers to Paladins if I already have a good'nuff healer in the group. Paladins do OK if you don't mind playing into their strengths, but a Ranger brings tracking, forage, archery, heals, buffs, run speed, damage shields, DOTs, so they are good at everything but the tank role.
  4. Buri Augur

    Well, I'll answer what I know best, which is bards... all of the later dots and DDs are single target. If you have it in your melody, they will hit whatever you have targeted. If you have no target or an invalid target, it will just skip that song and give you a message that you must have a target.
    There ARE some low level bard dots and DDs that are AOE, but they are weak by end-game standards, and pretty much only used situation-ally. Great for farming those spider silks or whatever.
  5. Xenze Elder

    Warrior does just fine in group content. They may have to take a second or two more than an SK, but once they have aggro, they hold it. I’ve played all 3 tanks (group, non raid), SK the longest, Warrior the shortest, and now currently a Paladin. But swapped out the SK for the Warrior in my Enchanter/Mage combo and never looked back.

    Paladin is doing fine in the group game as well. A bit more “spammy” than the SK/Warrior, but his self heals are right there with the SKs.

    Of the groups you mentioned, I think the SK, Shaman, Bard combo would be the best. Due to synergy. But, given that: it’s the group game, any tank will hold up just fine if you’re willing to put in the work for the gear.

    SK Shaman Mage sounds fun as well :)
  6. Fredescu Augur

  7. Kutsuu Augur

    There comes a point in group content where you just won't safely tank 5-6 trash mobs anymore unless they are a good bit lower level. That said, for what you're trying to do, I would probably go SK + mage + bard. You'll have a very nasty dmg shield between mage buff and bard songs, bard aDPS and CC, and mage has some *ok* options for AOE damage and is super easy to box. The bard can AE mez and slow as needed. Cleric merc or two for healing. You could even fight for agro with a wizard DPS merc on AE mode.
  8. Tucoh Augur

    OP, this def a good thread to read for current info on what you're doing.

    To answer your Qs specifically:
    1. Both are good. Big difference between sk/war in a box group is the SK is busier because they need to keep casting spells to hold aggro and stay alive. War can pop some abilities and will hold aggro pretty well against a group if they get healed due to Concordant Expanse.

    2. No, paladins do just fine.

    3. Bard dots/dd are single target only at high levels. They nerfed bard swarm kiting to the ground. Note that bards are in a really good state right now for both personal DPS and group contribution. Really hard to make a group with a plate tank without a bard.

    4. Cleric is the best healer box, but shaman is extremely good lately while providing buffs/cc/debuffs/dps. You'd be fine with either, but druids are underpowered when it comes to healing.

    5. Enchanters are in a good state, but aren't OP. In live EQ CC isn't that important with a solid tank + healing.

    6. war/pal/sk all do decent damage in the latest expansion (the undead allow the paladins to do high damage). Big differences are that warriors get the most boost from ADPS due to 90% of their damage coming from auto attack and that warrior's dual wield is very good defensively and offensively. A dual wielding warrior with even OK adps will out-dps a shield-using pal/SK and will out-tank a 2h-using pal/sk.

    7. Boxing melee isn't hard to do if you use a program like inner space boxer to do it. You can read more about my melee-centric setup here:

    This is the most recent vid I did of the hardest group content in ToV.
    8. Of the group options you have, I'd rank them as:
    war/shm/brd: the core of my group, very strong
    sk/shm/bard: same as above

    sk/shm/mag: mages are in a great state right now and the shaman will boost their pets
    pal/enc/wiz: The enchanter will boost the wiz and provide some help to the paladin. You'll be more reliant on merc healers, but with a paladin as backup it'll work.

    sk/cle/wiz: this group would work, but has little synergy and the cleric isn't necessary to heal the sk, a shaman or even druid would be better.
    war/cle/enc: this group will be low DPS. Nobody benefits from the enchanter's ADPS and you won't need the enchanter's CC with a war/cle.
    sk/shm/rng: rangers have severe mana issues right now

    Other options you may want to consider are:
    Vumad likes this.