6-Box Theory Crafting Exercise

Understand the below is not an ideal 6-box.
(1) Era should be assumed as pre GoD/OoW.
(2) Assume Level 65 with all critical AA for each class.

I like to tinker with thematic box setups (Iksar-only, Short races-only, and the like). That said, would a Bard or 4th Beastlord create a better setup in the below (all Vah Shir):

Warrior
Shaman
Beastlord x4

-OR-
Warrior
Shaman
Bard
Beastlord x3

After my last 6-box included a Bard, I pretty much swore I would not run another 6-box without one. However, given the Shaman is the primary healer that brings haste and Focus + slows, I'm not sure if a Bard's contribution will be > the contribution from a 4th Beastlord+pet. With respect to mana challenges of a BL, I would expect 4 paragons on rotation as mana goes low arguably "replaces" bard mana song and minimizes shaman canni needs. Also, 4 pets with procs that can stun mobs up to certain levels combined with the OP shaman slow should limit in many cases the potential damage the warrior would take... although GL to the warrior actually holding aggro /shrug

The missing factor would be that the absence of a bard makes pulling somewhat more difficult in certain places - although the grinder of 4 BL pets and shaman slows probably makes pulls of a few mobs not so scary.

Any thoughts are welcome.

What era of the game are we talking about here? Also I assume you are leaning more towards the theme of the group and not efficiency, right?

See (1): Pre-GoD/OoW

Yes on theme. 3 pets or 4 pets both make it thematic. All classes are Vah Shir options. It’s down to is Bard > 4th BL given some redundancy of some important considerations (paragon x4 vs mana song; shaman shared spell types with BL).

I gotta say Bard brings so much more utility to the group and should not be boiled down to just mana song. Would your kill speed probably be higher with a 4th BL, perhaps. But the ability to handle multiple situations that you may have not planed for makes the Bard more valuable imo. The mana song is just a bonus. Also, the amount of mana you would gain from a bard playing mana song would probably out-weigh a 4th paragon anyhow.

Paragon = 80 per tick for 6 ticks every 15m (480 mana) With SCR lasts 9 tick for 720 mana
Chorus of Marr = ~10 per tick - 100 mana per minute - (1500 mana)

Even assuming the bard is pulling and out of camp 1/3 of the time, its more mana gain over a 15 minute period. If mana issues are a concern for BLs during this era (and I think they are) then Bard is the way to go as I see it.

EDIT: forgot about SCR, changed Paragon numbers to reflect that

Hard to say that early on, the bard damage itself hasn't taken off fully, warrior dps isn't high enough yet to make overhaste a clear winner, and bards melee proc songs aren't putting out ridiculous damage yet. You still get the easy utility of bard for travel speed+invis+lev and resist songs. If you were going any farther on into history then bard wins without questions, but super early on I don't know it makes a huge difference. I don't remember when bard gets their first aoe mez.

I will say going bard will ease up gear competition for leather and monk weapons a fair bit.

Thank you for appealing to the math nerd in me.

Note it isn’t necessarily comparing 1 BL to bard via Paragon, but effectively rotating 4 paragons in a 15 minute window (720x4 = 2,880) vs 3 paragons (2,160) compared to what a bard would bring (2,160 + 1,500 = ~4,000).

So would a deficit of ~1500 mana in 15 minutes hold up constant pulls so I don’t have to sit the BL?

Tough question. But looking at it, 1500 mana is 7 frost spears per BL in 15 minutes assuming 100% uptime (30s recast) or around (skipping math / crits) 5-6 dps per BL before crit and assuming casting it basically on refresh.

So 3 BL could lose 15-18 dps without a bard, but add a 4th BL’s dps to the mix - which I’m going to simplify and assume is > 150. So lose 15 dps in nukes from existing BL over 15 minutes in exchange for 4th BL’s total damage contribution. Net, it feels like 4th BL, even with less mana to use across the 4 BL would be > a pulling bard’s indirect damage contributed via mana song.

Clearly some things aren’t accounted for… bard can snare instead of running BL snare Proc on a pet. Bard can basically haste entire group to 220% simply by existing. Bard can mezz a bad add, and pull seamlessly versus sending a warrior or shaman to pull.

Bard can help with resists and DS too, and can basically do a pre-slow for anything “hard” and then let the sham do the good slow once in camp, or help SHM slow something with occlusion. That 4th BL though? Just another effective melee/spell/pet DOT with another charge of paragon.

It’s a tough call, but above all Selos + travel really makes a 6 box easier than everyone needing to manage those buffs when trying to move around.

If it was just a situation of comparing the damage/kill speed a bard would add against the damage/kill speed a 4th BL would add, its an easy answer in favor of the 4th BL. However, when you add in all the utility the bard brings to the equation then I think it tips the scale in favor of the bard. Pretty much in every era of EQ, if you CAN add a Bard to the group, then you SHOULD add a bard to the group. There is a reason that in later eras of EQ, both the Melee DPS group and the Caster DPS group only overlap on one class: The bard.

Not to mention, if you play past OoW era, eventually you get storm blade and arcane aria on the bard, both of which can be fully utilized by a BL and their pets.

With all this in mind, I think you have your answer. Shaman, Warrior, Bard and 3 BLs.

I do and thank you for participating in the exercise. I felt it was BRD, but needed to talk it out to convince myself.

Adding the bard is going to be significantly better. Not just for convenience, but group DPS and sustain. I can't recall when bard song start hitting pets, but if they are it's not even close. If they aren't it's bard by a decent amount.

Honestly to put together a good group whether boxed or multiple players

#1 tank of your choice
#2 Bard
#3 thru #6 healer~aDPS~ DPS of your choice that goes well with the tank

Generally that has been my experience as well. I just wasn’t sure as Tank + Healer + 4 mages is pretty nasty. Wasn’t sure if I would regret leaving a 4th BL out of my theme would make me regret it. Generally though, adding a bard when you don’t have one is rarely a regrettable choice.