I really want to be on youtube and twitch with my setup, but I use some 3rd party programs and this has always been a grey area. Obviously, anything that automates gameplay while not being present at the keyboard is bannable, but if I come out in a public forum and use these pieces of software, will I be banned? Is it legal to use [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] to manage a 4 player group and to execute commands across my screens and take care of some Quality of Life things, such as hotkeys and group following my main toon? These really add a lot of value to Everquest, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone just come out and ask about it on this forum.
This has been brought up numerous times actually and basically 3rd party software that does not violate the EULA is acceptable to use. Some people will tell you that all 3rd party software is illegal which is wrong otherwise things like GINA and parsers (which technically are 3rd party) not to mention maps that you or DBG did not create could all be considered 3rd party. The unmentioned software is legal if you use it legally on servers where it is allowed (note a couple true box servers don't allow it). The main reason it gets a bad reputation is because people alter it, modify the settings or use it in addition to other 3rd party programs to play the game for them. When used as designed within the scope of the rules it is an amazing program and a huge QOL improvement for those who box not just from a functional standpoint but also from a visual perspective. I will continue to use it until I am told by an actual GM or DBG rep that it is now illegal and in that case I will probably stop playing as going back to alt tab or using multiple keyboards in my very limited space is more like a job and less like entertainment which after all that is what this game is for me. I am kind of amazed they have not developed their own boxing software designed for the game in which case I would be happy to switch over if it actually functions well. They could charge the same thing the unmentioned software company charges and I think lots of people would use it considering there would not be any questions like these regarding whether its legal or not and DBG would be making extra income from the subs on the software also.
I don't trust any of it. I have too much invested in my accounts to risk it. I've heard various things, but it's not all that hard to ALT+TAB.
You will never get a response from DBG about this sadly. Its not allowed to run EQ on a virtual machine, not even if your running the game unaltered on mac/linux for example. Why? Who knows...
If you think about revealing the fact you are using this software to play, you need to hide all the info that would give haters the chance to come after you. Remember the shitstorm when Madame made cool videos, but forgot to turn the timestamps off at one time?
Obviously parsers and GINA are allowed or there would be no one playing on servers. Everything else I would say no way.
This is really weird - because last time someone posted a twitch feed of themselves using Macro Quest you had this to say. Your toons are Tums, Mildgyth, Wizno, Zeakus and a couple of others. You are on E-Marr server. Your toons are all in Concordance of Xev. Good luck
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/i-s-boxer-is-this-illegal.800/#post-8866 https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ng-a-no-go-for-now.203937/page-2#post-3000154 https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...on-notice-stop-now.191668/page-6#post-2844743
Thanks for gathering the quotes in your post, Tucoh! While i use ALT-Tab myself with EQ, i follow the "common sense" generally that's been mentioned in one of your posts. Sometimes it is a fine line when something is "cheating" and when merely "making your life easier". "Back in my time", the rule was: If it allows you to gain XP while away from keyboard, it's prohibited. If you do not get XP (like the swimming mentioned), it may not be "perfectly legal" but tolerated and not a bannable offense either. Today, i would personally expand that to "if you kill (and auto-loot) mobs while afk, it's cheating" even if it is grey mobs. Virtualization in itself can also not be a bannable offense (on live servers), at most an indication. But virtual environments are almost a "must" in today's online-world. So any ban based on THAT alone and i'd say good riddance to EQ. But since this is a fine line and basically a case-by-case decision that is at most triggered by "obvious" indicators, i can understand that they do not make definitive statements on the matter. Which is why the above quoted statements seem quite helpful to me.
To the OP: Alot of people confuse key replication with automation. Key replication - when you push the "1" key on the active window, that key gets pressed on all instances of the game. Automation - when non-active screens (one your not currently focused on) does ANYTHING in reaction to anything else aside from the actions bound to the "1" key or whatever keypress is replicated to all bots. Also, anything that will cause multiple actions to occur on a character that are not bound to a key press (assuming you are not directly controlling the active screen).
Thanks all for the responses, I've been playing for the past 18 years and never see very many live streams from a live server and always thought this might be the reason. It's always a progression server or P99 stream. At this point, I just really enjoy the user interaction, and its good to see the quotes from official DBG staff on the subject. Since I'm not doing any insane automation, It falls within the scope defined above. Much appreciated Tucoh, those are some great quotes and gives me a perfect sense of where DBG falls on this subject. /cheers
Here is a little context, the person streaming this actually wasn't the group in the stream. He was in first person view with UI hidden streaming a botter. The group was AFK botting violating the EULA by cheating. Shortly after the stream appeared the forums blew up and a GM came in and banned the entire group. Before trying to make someone out to be the bad guy, give context.
Can we not call using is boxer to control other characters a bot? It would be far more accurate to call it a box. Botting is entirely different. Boxing using is boxer requires you to be at the keyboard to send keystrokes to other clients both using broadcasting and individual ones. For those not in the know broadcasting replicates what you do on one character to all or some of the rest you have logged in. Keystroke broadcasts send a single keystroke to one or some of the rest you have logged on. The general broadcasting replicates mouse/keystrokes basically everything you do on your main character to the rest. Keep in mind it's still one action (keystroke/mouse click) per key pressed is boxer doesn't allow for automation. On the other hand, m q2 does allow for automation and if used afk most certainly is a eula violation. Use while not afk is in the grey area, depending what functions you use from it. I've browsed the m q2 forums to see what the big deal is about it and the only time I've read that people were banned was for afk botting and flat out cheating such as warping, instant spell memorising or similar. Mercs are also bots and can likewise be used to kill stuff afk, difference being dbg sanctions their use. Use of is boxer is not botting as it does not provide automation features . Use of the other is, even if you're not afk as the characters play themselves without input from you unlike is boxer. Apart from your misuse of the word bot in this context, I otherwise agree with you. The only reason I even mentioned this is people using is boxer legitimately often get called botters when it's not. Oddly enough most real botters call what they do boxing too...
I just box the old fashion way, when I choose to do it. Most times, though, I hardly need to log in more than my main toon, because I hardly ever not find a group somewhere.
Like someone else in this post stated,we put too much time into our characters to take a chance at getting banned. So I for one would never use 3rd party programs. As for those of you still using alt+tab, most video cards and even some laptop come with extra video outputs so why not just hook up an extra monitor. It makes it soooo much easier to box and not need 3rd party programs, I mean besides using Gina and parse. I built my pc just for boxing eq by installing 2 video cards so I can hook up a total of 6 monitors. No they are not in sli and work perfect for running multiple accounts of eq each on its own screen and some higher end video cards have up to 6 outputs so depending on what you are willing to spend you can always hook up extra monitors.
Personally I see people using 3rd party programs ALL THE TIME! You can see if they use it for key replication. You can see if they use it for automation. You can see if they use it for REAL cheating options which modify things in EQ normally not possible. And that only from the outside. And honestly I see rarely boxer not using a keyboard replicator or window manager. I personally don't care about that much. The most important thing is that every player has a cool playing experience and nobody gets killsteal or somehow problems with their camps or playing experience. But I exclude specifically the jalous people who must press their personal dogmas onto people who like the challenge to play in a different way, e.g. boxers who are bored to hell by playing a single character for more than 10 years and like the challenge of more - or simply don't want to sit endlessly searching for people to group. The biggest problem are mostly jalous people who envy other peoples experience or boxer/cheater/other experience players/single players who don't care about common sense rules like - respect - to others - so it is not a matter of Solo, Molo or Boxing - its a psychological problem of the one sitting behind the keyboard. It is like in real life. Somebody acomplishes things not in the usual traditional dogmatic way and there are nay-sayers as fast as you can not even look - instead to ask how that works and if it can make life easier also for them and others - for a mantra - to come forward, have fun and help others. I personally like to box because it is hell boring meanwhile to play that game without and because it makes a hell of a challenge. And as long as nobody gets hurt and proper communication is present when something is messed up - I see no problem in that. Immature communication abilities are sadly common - the ones who have problems with it will be the ones who are lonely with 60 or 70 years and annoying their neighbors to hell in real life because they are unable to get friends or a meaning in life
Well, i agree. Mostly. I am an old-timer who's quite wary of other people using 3rd party software, because of past personal experiences. Yet i can understand anyone who wants to make their "life" easier too. As you said, it comes down to communication and use or abuse. I do not care if someone boxes or doesn't box. But my understanding ends when a person monopolizes a camp, an area or even a zone. (and i think it is not really one person, but a "team" behind the boxes, since we have a few and those are online far longer than any single human player would be) And i can not understand why people feel the "need" to 18-box either. Recently i ran into one of those in a static zone - and he wasn't even faster than me and my friend who were two-boxing each at the time (so a group of 4 characters and the use of two mercs). At least in this instance, this person did at least not interfere with our game, so i do not mind it in this case. But i wonder on the WHY some people see the "need" to box whole groups or raids, and i wonder even more about people buying characters from such people (which i have seen in the past). So it's not "jealousness" as you claimed, it's a total lack of understanding when some people overdo it in one's opinion.
