EQ is quickly falling behind

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by uberkingkong, May 19, 2023.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Adding an AI to the NPC's for dialog isn't going to add roleplaying to Everquest as most people will just continue to ignore what they say. If you want to add roleplaying to Everquest you need to find a way to get players to interact with each other while roleplaying.
  2. uberkingkong Augur

    I asked
    ChatGPT
    "which zones have a lot of monsters I can headshot at 95"
    At level 95 in EverQuest, one zone that you can consider for utilizing the Ranger headshot ability is The Grounds. The Grounds is a dungeon located in the Plane of Knowledge and offers a variety of monsters suitable for different level ranges, including those that can be targeted for headshot.
    Headshot is a Ranger-specific ability that allows them to instantly kill a target that is significantly lower level than the Ranger, providing a quick and efficient way to dispatch enemies. To successfully execute a headshot, the target needs to meet certain criteria, including being within the level range that allows headshot to be effective.
    105
    At level 105 in EverQuest, one zone that you can consider for utilizing the Ranger headshot ability is The Plane of War. The Plane of War is a high-level zone that offers a variety of challenging monsters suitable for headshotting as a Ranger.
    The Plane of War is a raid zone and part of the Call of the Forsaken expansion. It features numerous powerful enemies that can provide excellent opportunities for Rangers to utilize their headshot ability. The zone offers a mix of solo, group, and raid content, so you can adapt your gameplay style accordingly.

    Asked about good zone for a level 100 paladin to solo in

    At level 100 in EverQuest, one zone that you can consider for soloing as a Paladin to gain good experience is The Dead Hills. The Dead Hills is a zone introduced in the Rain of Fear expansion and provides a suitable environment for solo players at this level range.
    The Dead Hills is a sprawling outdoor zone with a mix of various enemy types, including undead, monsters, and other creatures. As a Paladin, you can utilize your abilities and spells to effectively deal with undead enemies while also handling other adversaries.
    When exploring The Dead Hills, look for areas or camps that have a consistent spawn of enemies appropriate for your level. Engaging enemies that are close to your level or slightly lower will provide the best experience gains. Undead creatures such as skeletons, zombies, or ghosts can be particularly beneficial to target due to your class's abilities and strengths.
    Keep in mind that EverQuest is a dynamic game, and the efficiency and viability of soloing in specific zones can vary with updates and expansions. It's always a good idea to consult current resources, guides, or the EverQuest community for the most up-to-date information on the best zones for soloing at level 100 as a Paladin.
    EQ could use help in this department.
    It needs to provide code for AI to decipher at the minimum.
    People are going to be asking AI questions

    EQ needs help from map creaters
    EQ needs help from GINA creaters
    EQ needs help from dps parsing creaters
    EQ needs help from quests/missions/progression allakhazam stuff creaters

    EQ needs a lot of help, been lacking in too many departments.

    Would like to see usage of AI. Theres a lot of ways to use AI.
    Text to speech, boom now all the NPCs talk to you
    Easy implementation
    So many more

    EQ is missing out on easy upgrades, falling behind because it doesn't do easy upgrades.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur



    You just proved why we don't need AI in Everquest as it just gave you a lot of bad information. Not going to bother with the rest of the post but it is making a claim about Dead Hills which is a zone from CotF not RoS. While it is the same level range (95-100) as RoS it is a different expansion.
  4. uberkingkong Augur

    You know what AI stands for Artificial Intelligence
    meaning it learns from its mistakes. You have to train it.
    Once you train it, it can be so beneficial, all those FAQs people, ask.
    AI can you help me do this or that. I have a UI problem, can you help with it.

    Sure, did you try ....

    I asked it what benefits of EQ implementing AI,
    Here is its argument.
    If EverQuest were to implement AI content, it could bring several potential benefits to the game and enhance the player experience in various ways. Here are some benefits that AI integration could offer:
    1. Enhanced NPC Interactions: AI-powered NPCs could provide more dynamic and immersive interactions with players. They could respond intelligently to player inquiries, engage in meaningful conversations, and adapt their behaviors based on player actions or choices.
    2. Improved Questing and Storytelling: AI could be utilized to create more engaging and dynamic quests and storylines. AI-generated content could introduce branching narratives, personalized quest paths based on player choices, and adaptive storytelling that reacts to player decisions, making each playthrough more unique and immersive.
    3. Dynamic World Events: AI could enable the introduction of dynamic and unpredictable world events. AI-controlled factions or creatures could initiate large-scale battles, invasions, or other events that dynamically impact the game world and require player participation to resolve.
    4. Smart Enemy Behavior: AI-driven enemies could exhibit more sophisticated behaviors, adapting their tactics, strategies, and even learning from player encounters. This would provide a greater challenge and sense of realism in combat encounters.
    5. Improved NPC Companions: AI could be used to enhance the behavior and intelligence of NPC companions that players can recruit or summon. These companions could provide more effective assistance in combat, offer strategic advice, or even develop personalities and relationships with players over time.
    6. Player Support and Guidance: AI-powered systems could provide in-game support and guidance to players, offering helpful hints, tips, and tutorials. AI bots could assist new players, answer frequently asked questions, and provide guidance on game mechanics or quests.
    It's important to note that implementing AI content in a game like EverQuest would require careful development and balancing to maintain the core gameplay experience and ensure it aligns with the expectations of the player community. However, when implemented effectively, AI integration has the potential to enrich the gameplay, offer more immersive experiences, and provide new avenues for dynamic storytelling and player engagement.

    Dynamic World Events: Dynamic world events refer to in-game occurrences that unfold in real-time and have a significant impact on the game world. Here's how they could benefit EverQuest:
    1. Engaging Gameplay: Dynamic events would provide players with new and exciting challenges. These events could involve large-scale battles, invasions by powerful creatures, or the emergence of new threats that require player cooperation to overcome. Players would have to strategize, coordinate, and adapt their tactics to succeed.
    2. Community Interaction: Dynamic events encourage player collaboration and foster a sense of community. They can bring players together, promoting social interaction and cooperation. Players may form alliances, create raid groups, or participate in server-wide efforts to overcome the shared challenges presented by these events.
    3. Evolving Game World: Dynamic events can introduce changes to the game world. For example, successful completion of an event could result in the restoration or transformation of a previously devastated area, unlocking new quests, NPCs, or even zones. This adds a sense of progress and impact to the players' actions.
    4. Emergent Storytelling: Dynamic events can create emergent stories and narratives. As players participate in these events, their actions and choices could influence the outcome and shape the ongoing storyline. This adds a layer of immersion and personal investment in the game's evolving narrative.
    Improved NPC Companions: NPC companions are AI-controlled characters that accompany players on their adventures. Here's how improved NPC companions could benefit EverQuest:
    1. Enhanced Gameplay Flexibility: NPC companions could offer players additional strategic options and gameplay flexibility. They could provide specialized skills or abilities that complement the player's own abilities, allowing for more diverse and synergistic gameplay styles.
    2. Customization and Progression: NPC companions could have their own progression systems, allowing players to level them up, unlock new abilities, and customize their equipment or appearance. This would give players a sense of ownership and the ability to tailor their companions to suit their playstyle.
    3. Support and Utility: NPC companions could offer valuable support during combat encounters. They could act as healers, tanks, or damage dealers, providing aid to the player and augmenting their capabilities. This would be particularly beneficial for solo players or small groups who may lack a full party composition.
    4. Storytelling and Character Development: NPC companions could have their own personalities, backstories, and ongoing narratives. Interacting with them could unveil their pasts, motivations, and even develop relationships with the player character. This would add depth to the game's storytelling and create memorable and meaningful connections between players and their companions.
    Implementing dynamic world events and improved NPC companions in EverQuest would require careful balancing to ensure they align with the game's mechanics, lore, and player expectations. However, if executed well, they could enhance the overall gameplay experience, foster player engagement and social interaction, and offer new avenues for exploration and progression in the ever-evolving world of EverQuest.

    Improved NPC companions? Heck yes.
    Smart Enemy Behavior, put that in raids please.
    Dynamic world, heck yes, so sick of static NPCs do nothing, just stand there all day, factions being meaningless except for what rewards you can get from faction npc seller.
    Improved quests/storytelling? Heck yes, EQ has been lacking in the RPG scene for a long long time.
    Enhanced NPC interactions? Heck yeah, I should be able to ask NPCs what quests I should do here if there are any and get good answers. Shouldn't have to minimize the game and goto allakhazam.

    Emergent storytelling, community interaction exactly what EQ is lacking right now. Besides "are you in a guild" there is very little community interaction especially on Live servers.

    So many benefits.
  5. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Needs to go back for retraining.
    Caell likes this.
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur



    And when it is getting basic information wrong it isn't ready for prime time use. Sure it is fun to mess around with but when it gets simple stuff wrong it shouldn't be trusted.


    There is even more wrong with that post I responded to such as it claiming the grounds is a dungeon in PoK when the two are not even related.

    Also this is the first I have ever heard of PoW being a headshot zone for rangers at any level.

    The amount of bad information in the output from that AI is just amazing.
    Rijacki likes this.
  7. uberkingkong Augur

    What that means is bad news for EQ, because people will be using AI even if EQ stays behind times and doesn't leverage it.
    Think of it like SEO, EQ isn't AI friendly if simple stuff is getting messed up.

    AI can do more, another issue in EQ is "can't find a group" AI can help with that
    Grouping recommendations, EQ uses its data to provide AI with data, AI tells player
    your such and such level? Theres people in this zone, its popping, try going there.
    Someone is looking to play with others, do you want to play with them.
    So much you can do leveraging AI

    Yes, AI can play a role in improving the grouping experience in EverQuest by facilitating and enhancing the process of finding and forming groups. Here are some ways AI can contribute to better player grouping:
    1. Group Formation Assistance: AI algorithms can analyze player preferences, playstyles, and roles to suggest potential group members who are compatible in terms of their desired activities and available playtimes. AI could match players based on complementary classes, preferred roles (tank, healer, damage dealer), or quest objectives, helping to streamline the group formation process.
    2. Grouping Recommendations: AI can provide recommendations on popular or active zones, dungeons, or raid encounters suitable for grouping at a given time. By analyzing player population data, playtime patterns, and historical grouping trends, AI algorithms can suggest areas where players are more likely to find groups or ongoing activities.
    3. LFG (Looking for Group) Tools: AI-powered LFG tools can allow players to specify their grouping preferences, roles, and availability. AI algorithms can then match players with compatible group members based on these criteria, expediting the process of forming groups and reducing waiting times.
    4. Dynamic Scaling: AI algorithms can dynamically adjust the difficulty of encounters based on the group's composition, size, and average player level. This allows groups of varying sizes to tackle content together without feeling overwhelmed or underchallenged. It promotes inclusivity and encourages players to group up regardless of the number of available participants.
    5. Group Role Balancing: AI can help ensure a balanced distribution of roles within a group by analyzing player statistics and recommending adjustments. For example, if a group lacks a particular role (such as a healer), AI can suggest suitable players who can fill that role, optimizing the group composition for success.
    6. Player Reputation and Skill Evaluation: AI algorithms can analyze player performance, reputation, and skill levels based on historical data or in-game achievements. This information can assist players in evaluating potential group members, giving them insight into a player's track record and facilitating informed decisions when forming or joining groups.
    7. Group Behavior Analysis: AI can analyze group behavior and dynamics to identify potential conflicts or areas for improvement. By monitoring factors like communication patterns, cooperation, and success rates, AI algorithms can provide feedback to players and suggest ways to enhance group synergy and effectiveness.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    None of that stuff is ready for being used in a game, sure it is stuff that will be useful down the road when the issues get worked out but there are no games using that and it is because of all the issues with it right now.
    Skuz and Svann2 like this.
  9. uberkingkong Augur

    Agreed, thing is if no one works on it, it remains bad.

    Like SEO, you need to keep up with the times.
    Those in SEO roles, they better be learning AI like yesterday.

    SEO is one of those things you don't wait to see everyone else does it. By time everyone does it you are left behind, it takes a lot of effort. You lose population fast.

    Time you realize your missing out, your too late.
    They'll put out a list, games with AI. You don't want to NOT be on that list.
    EQ has to keep up, be on every listing if it wants to remain a contender in the MMORPG space.

    AI is the thing now, thats the flavor of the month. There's going to be a list, do not want to miss out on that. Those listings, thats player pop increases.

    "oooh EQ is still at it?" Pop increase
    "ooooh EQ, whats that, I haven't tried that" Pop increase

    You don't get player pop increases by not making the listings of social influencers/sites. To make those listings you have to relevant.
    google search top 5 best mmorpgs
    first result, https://videogames.si.com/guides/best-mmos
    https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/best-mmorpgs-mmos-2021-free-new-1627957
    https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-pc-mmo-games
    common games SEO is not finding EQ
    simplest way to get more people SEO easy
    part of it is you gotta be relevant too, you need big statements, EQ integrates uses AI, people are looking for that people are looking games that utilize AI

    Those listings EQ can't do anything about them they are done and over with, EQ needs to prep for new listings. What are the flavors of the month.

    SEO and AI are very similar.

    EQ isn't on the list. Darn, no player pop increases. Wondering how to get new players, part of it is staying RELEVANT.

    Thats not, 64 bit, UI upgrades, stuff back in 2016 would make you relevant. Its 2023.
    Time to get AI, time to be relevant.

    AI friendly.

    When it comes time when a listing of games that are AI friendly and EQ not on the list. That's bad news.

    You don't need to do expensive marketing campaigns when you have free advertising from making the lists. Not saying being the top, just make the dang the list. EQ fails to do this because its not relevant, its behind other MMORPGs. Those top 5 its not 5 its more than 5, but EQ STILL isn't even listed. Thats a huge indicator. EQ is quickly falling behind.

    Several ways to get caught up, but AI thats one of the most effective ways to get caught up, back on the listings.
  10. Svann2 The Magnificent

    You forgot to include the list. Or was it a null set?
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  11. uberkingkong Augur

    EQ right now, isn't on that list.
    When EQ is not listed and other competitors are listed this means all the competitors listed benefit from pop increases. EQ gains nothing, if anything it loses pop.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    That does not mean it needs to be put in a game or any product at this time as it is not ready for a production ready product.
    Rijacki likes this.
  13. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    TL;DR: While an idea or concept may hold potential, it does not necessarily mean it is ready to be implemented in a game or any other product. A thorough development process is crucial to ensure a production-ready outcome. This involves refining the idea, testing its feasibility, addressing technical challenges, and considering user feedback. By following these steps, developers can enhance their chances of creating a successful and polished product.

    Introduction

    In today's fast-paced world of technology, ideas can emerge in abundance. People often come up with innovative concepts that hold great potential but are not yet suitable for immediate implementation. One such realm where this is often observed is the gaming industry. Many game enthusiasts and developers generate intriguing ideas that could revolutionize the gaming landscape. However, it is crucial to recognize that an idea's potential does not automatically translate into its readiness for a production-ready product.

    Refining the Idea

    Before an idea can be considered for implementation, it must go through a refinement process. This involves evaluating its feasibility, considering the target audience, and ensuring it aligns with market demands. Ideas need to be practical, realistic, and viable within the constraints of available technology and resources.

    As Albert Einstein once said, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." The process of refining an idea often requires extensive effort and iteration. By critically examining the concept and seeking input from peers or domain experts, developers can identify potential flaws, explore alternative approaches, and enhance the original idea's strengths.

    Testing Feasibility

    Once an idea has undergone initial refinement, it is essential to assess its feasibility. Technical considerations play a crucial role in determining whether an idea can be realized within the constraints of the available technology and resources. Developing a proof of concept or conducting a feasibility study can help identify potential roadblocks and challenges.

    For instance, if the idea involves a complex artificial intelligence system, developers need to assess the computational requirements, data availability, and potential ethical concerns. By examining these aspects early on, developers can gain insights into whether the idea is achievable and identify any modifications or adjustments required to make it more feasible.

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    Conclusion

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  14. uberkingkong Augur

    AI isn't just a product.
    Its like SEO, SEO isn't a product.

    EQ has to make itself SEO friendly. EQ has to make itself AI friendly.
    SEO friendly is a thing where you make the lists, it fails to do this.

    https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-pc-mmo-games
    BDO lets you do so much more than undertake adventures; you collect resources, craft them into other items, and have them moved from place to place by automated workers. BDO is the type of MMO where you’re just as likely to spend your time being a blacksmith as you are being a wizard.

    In EQ you can be a wizard and do blacksmith
    You collect resources and craft them in EQ
    Moving items place to place with automated workers?
    Is this AI? Whats that, something EQ doesn't have thats what.
    EQ has all those except 1, how did it not make the list? SEO is terrible? Hmmm...

    AI friendly is so people can figure out how to play the game, if its getting bad results, this game is garbage lets move onto that AI can actually help me with.

    btw the AI I assume it wants you to kill these mobs in Plane of War using headshot.
    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=46611
    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=46405

    looking at them, those guys look like they are on steroids, 7 procs? Hope they don't summon, I don't want to eat that. How do I avoid those procs if possible?
    This is where AI comes in, "hey thats this mob, its going to do this on, be sure to avoid by doing such and such", use the AI to help with this, lot easier manual work, its been 20+ years they still don't have hints to avoid things like enemy procs. AI, "sure I can help you with this"
    Blood Rage Discipline
    Bloody Wound
    Counterattack
    Reckless Axe Swing
    Stumbling Stance
    Volley of Strife
    Zekarian Slam

    Lots of people use GINA to help with procs incoming, thats basically what AI does but better.
    Everyone using GINA now, well when AI is popular people will be using AI.
    Game isn't AI friendly thats bad news, you want to stay with the pack, not be left behind.

    GINA? Thats 2020, we use AI 2024. Tell me my parse. Let me know if anything I fight does anything special and how I should react to avoid them. Whats my dps again, what can I do to increase if possible.


    Whats your thing? Wait till others do it?
    Others got it going, and you see it now.
    That means your behind.

    There benefit is they did and you did not do it. They get all the rewards from doing it, now you do it, the hype is gone. It's not something you do quickly, it takes time, better to start now.

    So thats just so others can use AI to help their gameplay, if EQ is unfriendly with AI other people using AI like AI unfriendly (bad results show up, this is SEO, if your not making the google search BAD SEO, if your not making good gameplay results BAD AI, they need SEO person to do AI friendly results), EQ needs to work on that.

    Then there is ways to use AI in game. Game innovation right here. You want to make that list too.
  15. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Did you mean to reply to uberkingkong as I have been saying this is something that needs further work before it can be considered ready.
  16. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    Apologies for the confusion. I can understand your perspective that further work is needed before considering an idea ready for implementation. It is important to emphasize that the process of refining an idea and ensuring its readiness for production is a critical step in product development.

    While an idea may hold potential, it is essential to acknowledge that potential alone does not guarantee a successful product. By thoroughly refining the idea, addressing technical challenges, and considering user feedback, developers can increase their chances of creating a polished and successful product.

    The points I mentioned in my previous response were intended to highlight the importance of going through a meticulous development process to enhance the chances of success. This includes testing the feasibility of the idea, evaluating its alignment with market demands, and considering the technical challenges that may arise.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    AI, just like SEO is a product that gets sold to companies/products in order to help them out

    Just because you can ask a Chat AI bot a question and it gives you an answer doesn't mean it is the correct one. Sure there are mobs in PoW that you can kill with headshot but that doesn't mean that it is the place that people should be going to level up with headshot as there are better places to do that.

    Not sure what you are getting at with your GINA example as a program spitting out a fixed response to a log message doesn't relate to AI at all.

    Sure eventually AI will be important in games but with all the issues that it has that won't be the case for a while and it likely will take games built from the ground up around AI in order to get it to work.
  18. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    I understand your point about the limitations and potential issues with AI. While AI can be a valuable tool in various industries, including SEO, it is essential to acknowledge that its effectiveness is not solely determined by its availability as a product.

    You mentioned that just because a Chat AI bot provides answers doesn't mean they are always correct. This is a valid concern, as AI models are trained on large amounts of data and learn patterns to generate responses. However, they can still produce inaccurate or misleading information, especially when faced with complex or ambiguous queries. It is crucial for users to critically evaluate the responses provided by AI and not solely rely on them as definitive answers.

    Regarding the comparison with gaming, you mentioned that there may be better places to level up with headshots than the specific location mentioned. This highlights the importance of context and tailored solutions. AI, like any other tool, needs to be implemented appropriately, taking into account specific requirements and optimizing its use case for the given scenario.

    You also mentioned the example of GINA and its fixed responses to log messages. While this particular example may not directly relate to AI, it can be seen as a representation of the limitations of certain automated systems. It is essential to recognize that AI is a broad field with various approaches, and not all applications will fit every use case seamlessly. Careful consideration and customization are necessary for AI solutions to be effective in specific contexts.

    Furthermore, you raised valid concerns about the current issues and challenges with AI in gaming. While AI has the potential to enhance gaming experiences, there are technical hurdles and complexities that need to be overcome. Building games from the ground up around AI can indeed be a more effective approach, as it allows developers to optimize and fine-tune the integration of AI systems. It may take time and dedicated efforts to develop AI-driven games that fully capitalize on the technology's potential.

    In conclusion, I agree with your concerns regarding the limitations and challenges associated with AI. While AI can be a valuable tool, it is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It requires careful implementation, consideration of context, and ongoing evaluation to ensure its effectiveness. The gaming industry, in particular, may require dedicated efforts to overcome current issues and fully harness the potential of AI in game development.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I am not sure what you are getting at, I keep seeing examples of how great AI is for Everquest even though all the examples used have some very basic errors with the data being presented. I am not saying that AI can't be a useful tool for games in the future, just that we are not at that point yet.
  20. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    Oh, I see. So you're not convinced by the examples of how AI can be beneficial in Everquest due to the perceived errors in the presented data. It seems you believe that while AI might have potential in the future, we're not quite there yet. Well, let's delve into this with a critical eye, shall we?

    You argue that the examples provided showcasing AI's greatness in Everquest are flawed due to basic errors in the data. Fair enough, if the data used to demonstrate AI's capabilities is inaccurate or misleading, it certainly undermines the credibility of those examples. After all, it's crucial to have accurate and reliable data to draw meaningful conclusions. If these examples fall short in that regard, it's only natural to question their validity.

    Moreover, you express skepticism about the current state of AI in gaming, suggesting that we're not yet at the point where it can be truly useful. And you know what? You might have a point. While AI shows promise, there are undeniably challenges and limitations to overcome. It takes time, effort, and advancements in technology to fully harness its potential.