What classes do you think today are underpowered?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, May 25, 2023.

  1. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Does depend on if "your" account is AllAccess or FTP and your gear up-to-date. There are quite a few classes that are weak in moloing. Moloing RoS is undoable for most FTP classes.

    The problem with dungeons is that such zones do still get designed for groups, even that the group game is dead since a long time. The lack of save spots was always a problem. Both Kor-Sha zones were always dead on AB with very few expections. So there is a huge discrepancy between game design and the player base reality.

    Another thing is that the player expectations and needs, and not only their behaviour, has changed drastically in the last 20 years. Gearing up a stack of toons is not fun anymore. Not even for a single toon. Everything has become to tedious and complicated over all those years. EQ is about to become, and partially already is, an old people's home, and I don't think that the devs are prepared for that. They do not even realize how old their player base is, as they continue to release childish and ridiculous toys like oversized gear, disney familiars/mounts and other stuff, as if the players are seven years old. The generation change on the player side is not going to happen !
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw.
    code-zero, Iven and Szilent like this.
  3. Szilent Augur

    here it is again, this assumed equating of years on earth with decreased capacity for joy, and it's still weird.
  4. Cadira Augur

  5. Emilari UI Designer

    I have a subscription; I'm not FTP. I'm an end-game raider with Reckless Ascension on Bristlebane which is ranked third serverwide for Night of Shadows raid completion. I've got all the bells and whistles. I'm aware my class is one of the weakest solo/molo classes in the game - but I should be able to go knock out tasks in 6+ year old content despite that; the other 15 classes can. Clerics need a tune-up in the DPS department minimum and a re-design to make the class more fun to play should the devs decide they have time for such a project.
  6. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Cadira, it is wrong to think that I do hate animals. I mentioned them as examples and my point was the style change of the game which is going straight to that of My Little Pony and Disney. I would like to see rather realistic animal models instead. The old animal models are sometimes clunky but at least pretty realistic. I could even accept cute animals as puppies as long as they do look realistic.
  7. Iven Antonius Bayle

    With a rogue or wizard merc you should be able doing so but it could mean that you would have to change your play style so that the cleric would be the tank and not the merc. Clerics are just not meant being DPS. I do see the problem in your play style and merc choice and not in the cleric class. Obviously you do use a tank merc or no merc at all. I have not played a high level cleric but in the lower levels the cleric has descent nukes and the summoned hammer pet and the reversed DS (mark of x) does also help.
  8. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    Doesn't play Cleric, but tells a long-standing, established Cleric main that they're wrong.

    There's no ranged Holy damage dealer in the game. It should be a no-brainer decision to expand a Cleric's offensive arsenal to fill that niche.
  9. Emilari UI Designer

    Tank mercs are bad... if I use a merc, I use my rogue merc. If I don't use a merc, things take 1000x longer using my DA hammer but it's a lot safer and there is more content available to me. However, I don't think it's good class design to require an item from 2001 to be able to do anything worthwhile.

    Cleric nukes do not scale well at current end-game EQ which is currently my biggest gripe with the class.
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  10. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Hammer from 2001 ?? Actually this is the hammer pet that I do mean. Time to buy new spells ! :cool:

    I just do compare the cleric and magician spells. The cleric has some very nice tools for soloing like Vow of Perniciousness and many defensive buffs that do proc heals and damage. The standard DD and AE nukes are very weak and could definetly be buffed a little bit. As the mana efficiency is also bad, the damage potential and the mana cost could just be doubled. The magician DD nukes are also to weak btw but the mana efficiency is ok. When concentrating on undead mobs the cleric seems to on par with the magician when including the pets.

    Cleric spells
    Magician spells
  11. Emilari UI Designer

    Divine Hammer of Consternation.

    Clerics are nowhere close to magicians in DPS in NoS (or any time in recent expansions).
    Ssdar and Zachton Soulstriker like this.
  12. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest


    I have feeling he's comparing Magician and Cleric DD spells at level 50...
  13. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Out of context quote. It was:
    The 10% 600k proc on the very mana efficient Extirpate the Undead spell is very powerfull. The Sermon of Repentance DoT is also strong and quite mana efficient and the slow proc can be helpfull.
  14. Emilari UI Designer

    Live or undead, cleric DPS is not anywhere close to magician DPS in Night of Shadows (or any recent EQ expansion). There is a lot more to consider in such calculations than simple base damage.

    Clerics are at the bottom of all 16 classes BY FAR for DPS.

    Magicians in NoS are considered one of the top DPS classes.
    Zachton Soulstriker likes this.
  15. Fenthen aka Rath

    Just want to confirm that clerics are only allowed to attempt to kill undead mobs, and live mobs should truck clerics otherwise.
  16. Iven Antonius Bayle


    Extirpate the Undead
    116 Cleric
    Resist Adjust bonus (magic): -100

    30,485 dmg
    + 60,000 dmg (10% chance for 600,000)
    + 24% chance for resistance debuffs for even more following up damage
    = 90,485 dmg for 2636 MP
    = 34 dmg / MP


    Spear of Molten Luclinite
    120 Magician
    Resist Adjust bonus (fire): None

    73,014 dmg for 8,962 MP
    = 8 dmg / MP


    Sure there are many other factors to consider but against undead mobs the cleric should perform well. While Spear of Molten Luclinite has a bad mana efficiency the comparision of those two spells is cleary in the favor of the cleric. The cast and recast time is also much better for the cleric spell which can raise the DPS and mana efficiency further.
  17. Fenthen aka Rath



    Is this while the cleric's pet is tanking for the cleric? Asking for some friends.

    PS - absolutely zero people care about mana efficiency in today's game when killing group content. The only ones who might care, specifically in raid content, are beastlords, rangers, druids. Clerics aren't running out of mana no matter how hard they try, unless it's an event with specific intent to drain resources.
    Zachton Soulstriker likes this.
  18. Iven Antonius Bayle

    The cleric pet is not meant to be a tank and is very squishy at lower levels, if that is your point. I do not really get the question.

    I do always care about mana efficiency, so it is not zero. Additionally, clerics might never run oom because they have so many mana efficient spells. Would be funny if cleric spells would be nerfed now after those posts. :p
  19. DaciksBB Augur

    Reading everything up to here in this thread, are you really calling magician pets weak? Like even if Extirpate the Undead was on par in actual gameplay with mage nukes (it's not), mage pets are extremely strong. Additionally, how good do you think cleric nuke AAs are? A huge part of this game at higher levels is critical damage and using short duration AAs and buffs to amplify damage.

    On that note lets compare cleric melee with something. Here we have Cleric's Divine Avatar
    Slot 3: Increase Hit Damage by 600% (v185)
    Slot 4: Increase Worn Proc Rate by 200%
    Slot 6: Increase Current Hit Points by 4000 per Tick
    Slot 7: Increase Critical Nuke Damage by 50% of Base Damage
    Slot 8: Decrease Weapon Delay by 33.8%


    And here we have Monk's Terrorpalm Discipline
    Slot 1: Increase Hit Damage by 157% (v185)
    Slot 2: Increase Min Hit Damage by 812%


    Comparing these two abilities, do you think a cleric's auto attack would do more than a monk's when these two are active? Look at those mods! Nope, they aren't even close. A monk would likely have Fists of Fury procced and a different disc stacked with it. Additionally, clerics are missing many of the auto attack passives that monks have (double attack, triple attack, flurries, critical hits, Innate Innerflame), a better weapon, ripostes, and this is excluding the hotbars worth of spam skills, Flying Kick, and Tiger Claw/Eagle Strike that monks would be using.
    Zachton Soulstriker likes this.
  20. Iven Antonius Bayle

    You should re-read my posts and you might notice that I have not called magician pets weak, but you are right that they should be considered for the DPS part and overall performance. As I had mentioned, there are many other factors to consider for class performance.The cleric class is at the DPS bottom for good reasons and no other class should be there.

    Cleric DPS really might be to low but players do always want the jack of all trades for every class. I would like the rogue being more tanky but on the other side I would not sacrifice DPS for that and could just pick a ranger or monk instead. It is very unlikely that big class balance changes will happen, so a shaman instead of a cleric would be just the better choice for moloing. Mercenary balance might be also a thing to consider and could be done easier.