Truebox Request #4891

The same people will box and group whether there is truebox or not. It also goes without saying that many if not most boxers will happily drop a box and/or merc for a real player. Especially once content arrives that is difficult if not impossible to complete with legal boxes (as opposed to the illegal ones that control themselves.)

The only thing truebox actually does is ensure that only the people willing to circumvent rules or the people willing to invest in the material resources can box at all. That's all it does.

Truebox in TBS (certainly before) and beyond isn't even true to the spirit of EQ, since at that point, people were already running multiple instances of the game on one PC.

https://www.mmobugs.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-many-can-you-run.6062/

Here's a thread detailing running multiple instances as early as 2007. One person mentions 12+. It certainly wasn't a hardware limitation even years before then for two or three boxes.

Anyway, your fears of 'box armies' are mostly unfounded. Most players don't want anything to do with that. They might want to play a box or two, especially with merc content, especially when they need to be able to step away at a moment's notice. But they don't want to use extra software to hotkey five characters or more. They don't want to run raid instances solo. They don't want to farm group mission currency. Like you, they just want to play the game with other players/friends and enjoy themselves. Truebox isn't exactly facilitating that.

This guy get sit.

@Waring I think the main problem is people ask and ask about truebox removal and no one (of authority) answers them. On Selo we asked a thousand times, even when practically no one played on the server, and no one answered. Mangler has been asking. No answer. Thornblade has for a minute. No one answers. To my knowledge the last thing we got was "we will see how Yelinak goes". But Yeli is in GoD with relaxed (in OoW) in June and removal in May of 2024. So we are waiting another year for them to discuss "how it went" and if it can/should be done on other TLP? By then Thornblade will have dwindled a lot more then it is now.

They have already stated that they are waiting to see how it would play out on the new servers that they added it to before they did anything to other servers. Likely the only reply that they will give is nothing has changed regarding that.

That was my point. You got other servers asking for years to get truebox removed. But they are waiting until Yelinak gets to TBS which is May 2024. Even then they still have to see how it goes? So over a year from now, as the current TLP population dwindles away, will someone say yes or no. As much poo as people give the folks at EQHQ I am positive they are smart enough not to need the Yelinak outcome to address peoples concerns over current TLP truebox.

Just because players are requesting something doesn't mean that they have to agree with the request and do it.

TB only penalizes Single PC Boxers , serves no other purpose Factually in real game. I know farmers out there from the other TB TLP's that do 6-12 ( split for camps ) you cant beat them. To claim that it actually does anything is a myth , the guys even post video's ! lol

The only data they currently have on Truebox removal is from Vaniki, which doesn't show Truebox removal in a good light.

What you all should be pushing for is relaxed Truebox, 3 accounts playable on 1 machine. As you said this comes to Yelniak in a months time so they will have data for it much sooner. 3 accounts on 1 machine would satisfy a lot of players and I think would be a good compromise for an earlier decission.

Some of you keep acting like the death of vaniki was truebox removal lol. The death of vaniki was its ruleset. I called when it would die the second I saw the release schedule. Quit acting as if the truebox removal was any part of that lol.

It can't be said either way what the cause was and that is their only indicator so far. As more servers get it relaxed and removed they will have better data to make a decision.

This is fine with me. The people that circumvent the rules will do it regardless. Relaxed would be a good medium ground.

I agree. The point was communication with their players on the topic. People are antsy. They have data on Vaniki. They could share at least a little something.

I am sure they have plenty of data on Vaniki to show why the server failed. As Pappa said it was probably the ruleset. While the achievement thing was a great idea. The whole 10 +/- levels thing was kinda whack. Except it let casters excel for once. I highly doubt truebox had anything to do with Vanikis population. Is it their only data as far as truebox removal? Yes. But I'm guessing their data says removing it had no actual negative effect on the server. Which begs the question, why not go ahead and remove it (or relax it) on Thornblade, Mangler etc.

In conclusion unless someone actually proves a negative aspect of removing/relaxing truebox then whats the point of keeping it around on some of these later servers? They already have new TLP's with set schedules and my assumption is all future TLP will have the same.

There isn't anything for us to prove around the removal of truebox from the vanki server as all the data is in the hands of Daybreak and they are not sharing it with us.

It should also be noted that the server population did decline as there are players who are there for the rewards and went on break to complete the live expansion that launched in December. It is a server that people from live servers will visit for the rewards when they don't have new content on live to work on.

Which is why I don't think truebox is the culprit. I know we can't prove anything but I was thinking someone that played Vaniki full time could comment if truebox removal was really a detriment (from their point of view).

IMO Vaniki was designed for live/other TLP to hit for rewards for their home server. Removing truebox would (IMO) only benefit Vaniki as those still wanting to get the rewards (like my guild is doing casually) can sign on a few chars and try to get them.

All of this I mainly say because Yinla has said twice that truebox removal hurt Vaniki without any evidence (that we know of). But I imagine its speculative the same as my assumption of truebox removal not hurting anything.

I'm ok with Thornblade/Mangler (though I don't play Mangler) being the first active TLP's to get a relaxed truebox to start. And if they do it now they can collect data the data from Thornblade in TBS with tweaking truebox.

And that doesn't mean that it wasn't either, Vanki is a special server in the population that it attracts and isn't likely enough to provide the data Daybreak wants on removing truebox.

As someone who has played on Vaniki since the start, the population dropped at differnent points. It dropped off a lot at level 60 when players got the Vaniki illusion, that was also when OoW dropped. That was also a point where a lot of players found themselves playing content they have never seen before. I was amazed how many players hadn't played DoN before, it was fun to show guildmates zones they had never seen before. Hard to tell with everything else going on at that stage if it was where the server was at or if it was the Relaxed Truebox kicking which reduced numbers. My gut says nothing to do with Truebox as at the time if felt that a lot of those who vanished had planned to do that all along.

We lost players when Truebox finally was removed last October, not sure exactly why. It may have been Truebox but it may also have been Beta opening up for liver players, followed by the new expansion launching in December.

After that it stabled out a bit, until the Cragbeast reward nerf in Feb/March. Where once again a lot of players went back to their other servers. These days most groups are boxed. Every once in a while you can get a group with no boxes. SoD launching made it a lot easier for those who don't box a full group to get some stuff done, just by playing 2 or 3 chars and using mercs to fill the empty slots.

But both times they did something with Truebox there was also other factors going making it inconclusive if Truebox was the cause of population change.

With the announcement of Oakwynd, the server picked up with a lot of new lower level players (level 40) running around as they want the food clickie.

I can see over the next few years Vanikis population will go up and down as players want to get different items.

Vaniki is a fun server, but the player base numbers is very up and down.

It's been 4? years asking for removal of truebox on dead servers...will compromise at relaxed.

Why can't we let people play two characters on one computer? Not a bunch, just allow two per PC. I don't really see the problem myself. It's not like there aren't people playing a bunch of characters through other means. Because this fact isn't heavily policed (or, policed at all?) Daybreak is basically saying it's fine if you want to break the rules as long as you use these other programs/means to do it but we don't want your every day player to pay for two accounts so they can easily box using the same computer and play these two accounts to actually do things in the game when populations are low.

naw

yaw

Mangler was told in discord (and not the public forums obviously) that we are to wait and see how Yelinak goes. Which was defeating especially after what they did for Corinav. Mangler is currently pushing for them to at least look into the Truebox disconnect so husbands and wives quit D/Cing during raids.

You mean the changes they made before they merged it into a live server? I am sure they would do the same thing for Mangler if they decide to merge it into a live server.