Oakwynd Feedback

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by coltongrundy, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

  2. Doze Augur

    Well ... no. Actually then it is quite the opposite, since now every attack made by anyone (including those on the locklist) will ALSO have the server making checks to see if the attacker is on the locklist (for every swing and cast).
    Essentaillly then it is like they reintroduced the check for if attacker is using Magic weapons ...
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    It may work that way and it might not, I think it is safe to assume that they have accounted for that in the design.
  4. Doze Augur

    Your lack of understanding about how code works is painfully evident.
    No amount of designing will remove the need for the server to verify the validity of every action taken by any player against a locked mob. And the check to see if player is on the mobs locked list will be 1 more (constantly repeated) check than normal.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    What lack of understanding? Making a statement that says that it is safe to assume that the devs have designed this system around how it will impact the system lag wise?
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And I am saying that it is likely that they took it into account when they designed it. The devs are aware of server lag being an issue afterall.
  7. Doze Augur

    We weren't talking about when or how content (zones etc.) are going to be unlocked though, but that the new locked combat system will increase rather than reduce server load.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Yes, I thought I was replying to a different post and I have already corrected it.
  9. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Wrong. But you seem to have a passing knowledge of what the scientific method is, so let's get started!
  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    First Statement: Direct Quote from JChan (Producer's Letter 2023)
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    Additionally, this server will be our first attempt at encounter locking. In short, once an NPC is engaged, it will be locked to that character, group, or raid. Characters not part of the lock cannot contribute damage. Spells from outside characters will not land on the NPC. If an actively locked NPC loses aggro for a short time period, the NPC will go home, reset, then unlock (italic portion was changed in second statement below).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second Statement: Oakwynd FAQ (removed path all the way home before unlock, added /yell command)
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    We’re also working on an FAQ specifically based on your questions and feedback about the Encounter Locking feature. Here is just a small part of what we have so far (and once we have more, we will update you here):

    Q: What is Encounter Locking? What is the goal for Encounter Locking?
    A:The Encounter Locking feature will allow the first person that engages an NPC the ability to prevent others from interfering with the fight. A primary goal with adding this feature is to mitigate issues we've seen regarding kill-stealing and training in the early TLP experience before content becomes more instance based as the expansions unlock.

    Q: How is the lock applied?
    A: The lock is applied to the first player that gets added to an NPC’s hatelist. This could be via a player attacking the NPC directly or the NPC attacking a player.

    Q: How is the lock removed?
    A: The lock is removed a short time after the NPC leaves combat. If someone on the lock list attacks the NPC within the period before it unlocks, the countdown will be reset, and the NPC will remain locked.

    Q: Can members be added mid fight to the group or raid?
    A: Yes. The lock is owned by an individual player. The group or raid that they currently belong to is the one that “owns” the lock. Players that are currently in the same group or raid as that player will be able to attack. Those that are not will not be able to attack.

    Q: Will this prevent assisting/helping other players?
    A: No. If a player would like assistance from someone outside their group or raid, they can target the NPC and use /yell. This will semi-unlock the NPC and allow anyone to attack it. Once unlocked using /yell, the NPC cannot be locked again until it leaves combat, and the original lock is removed.

    Q: Will there be any changes with how loot or experience is awarded?
    A: No. Loot and experience will be awarded to the person/group/raid that does the most damage to the NPC.

    Q: If a player dies while pulling an NPC, can it be locked by someone else immediately or does it need to revert back to its spawn point?
    A: If an NPC no longer has anyone on its hatelist and leaves combat, it will unlock in a short time whether it is at its spawn point or not. Once it is no longer locked, it can then be locked by anyone even if the NPC hasn’t reached its spawn point.

    Q: How will I know if an NPC is locked to me or someone else?
    A: Once an NPC is locked, its name will show as green if you’re able to attack it or grey if you aren’t. These colors will be player-editable if the default colors aren’t desired.

    Q: Will the Encounter Locking apply to all NPCs, or will there be exceptions?
    A: There will be exceptions and some NPCs will be excluded from the Encounter Locking feature due to them requiring cooperation amongst different people or being part of events that wouldn’t be completable if the NPCs were locked to separate people.

    Q: Will the Encounter Locking be on the Test Server before it goes to live?
    A: Yes, we are planning on enabling Encounter Locking on the Test Server in the May Test Server update. The feature will be turned off on the Test Server once Oakwynd launches.

    Again, we appreciate your passion, patience, and feedback. There will be more to share in the coming days and weeks so stay tuned.

    - The EverQuest Team
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My Statement: Page 133
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    They intend to do exactly as stated in their revised statement (marked Second Statement here).

    Don't listen to people who keep saying, "we can't know" what will happen, or worse, "YOU can't know what will happen."

    Many of us have enough reading comprehension and logical train of thought to understand how the new mechanic works. Some of us also have enough software development knowledge to understand how they will implement this mechanic.

    I said Engage=Aggro long before JChan confirmed.

    The only other pieces you need to understand are:
    - FTE adds a LockList. Your Raid/Group/Self are added to the LockList immediately upon Aggro of the mob (first character to enter the mobs empty hate list by any means at all, initiated by player or mob).

    -/yell [npctarget] is only available to the people on the LockList. Once /yell is issued on a mob, "Anyone can Attack it". But the names on the LockList remain the same, until the mob is "Out Of Combat" and subsequently "the Original Lock is removed" (LockList is cleared).

    In the example of dragging a train, they won't peel off on to another group, they are locked already. Social aggro = aggro = engage.

    But if aggro is completely dropped they will wait to be "Out Of Combat", wait to begin pathing back (same as a feign timing), and "Original Lock is removed". If the mob is walking back to spawn and can aggro on to another group (it's hate list and lock list are empty) it will aggro on.

    So yes you can 'drop trains', but not quite so directly targeted and without warning, as before.
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  11. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    First off, if what I wrote above is too much for you to read, comments that prove you didn't even read the whole thing will be summarily ignored.

    This is going to be a whole lot of reading for you coming up also. You can just bow out now if you're too lazy to even read.

    I didn't make something up on the fly. I applied several theories against the 'laws' given, and if they were disproven I moved on to a new theory. And when proving another part it touched on an earlier proven part and re-affirmed it, that's one of the ways I know I'm on the right track.

    Nobody questioning my knowledge has made a statement of anything but what they don't know, take them at their word. You don't have to believe me. I'll back up what I say with facts. I'm not too lazy, nor too afraid to make a statement supported by facts, and have no problem standing behind my words until proven wrong.

    My tips (above) on how to know when you are on track or off track with your theory hold true.

    This is not some comic book universe in which anything is possible, this is not some "thing that can't be known", just like a black hole. It can be tested. But the way you test a theory when you can't send a probe into a black hole is entirely different than you test a theory on an Everquest Mechanic that you can't play their implementation yet. You know by their statements what and how they are attempting to implement. We know 'the intent'. Will there be bugs and maybe it won't work as they intend and I say? Sure, but their intent is very clear, take them at their word.

    We don't use 'the laws of physics' to frame our tests, we use the laws of the Everquest Mechanic FTE. These laws are many and layered. And keep in mind this is exactly what we want. The more restrictions there are in the systems, the fewer possibilities there are, and fewer variables. Also in the field of Statistics they say 'Controlling Out' factors. Nullifying out variables which can confuse issues and are only causing random noise in the system.

    The sum total of their statements (so far. detailed above) creates the first layer of restrictions or 'laws' of this system we must obey.

    -Aggro=Engage: First on empty Hate List locks their Raid/Group/Self to that mob. This is also referred to several times in their statement as 'Original Lock', meaning the first raid/group/self on the Lock List.
    -"Characters not part of the lock can not contribute damage. Spells from outside characters will not land"
    -"If an NPC no longer has anyone on its hatelist and leaves combat, it will unlock in a short time whether it is at its spawn point or not. Once it is no longer locked, it can then be locked by anyone even if the NPC hasn’t reached its spawn point."
    -"/yell. This will semi-unlock the NPC and allow anyone to attack it."
    -"Loot and experience will be awarded to the person/group/raid that does the most damage to the NPC."

    The next layer are the 'laws' of coding that an ancient game demands.
    -Change as little as possible.
    -Use existing known systems as much as possible.
    -Leverage don't duplicate existing data.

    Next are what is needed to enable this new mechanic, beyond what already exists.
    -Lock List. List of people locked to mob, to check against at various points in code.
    -Code to populate Lock List.
    -Code to empty Lock List.

    After a good bit of thinking on it, here is what I theorize (and I said so on page 133):
    "They intend to do exactly as stated in their revised statement (marked Second Statement here)."

    I then checked my statement against the rules:
    In the example of dragging a train, they won't peel off on to another group, they are locked already. Social aggro = aggro = engage. -Aggro=Engage rule YES checks out

    But if aggro is completely dropped they will wait to be "Out Of Combat" -Exactly what they stated YES
    , wait to begin pathing back (same as a feign timing), -Use existing systems code rule YES
    and "Original Lock is removed". -Exactly what they stated YES
    If the mob is walking back to spawn and can aggro on to another group (it's hate list and lock list are empty) it will aggro on. -How everything currently works for a mob returning to spawn with empty hate list YES

    So yes you can 'drop trains', but not quite so directly targeted and without warning, as before.-YEP

    Coding simplicity:
    -Adding a Lock List, this is a simple list of names populated at aggro. And emptied at unlock.
    -Player interactions are not restricted in any way (no code change). Anyone can target and attempt to damage a locked target.
    -NPC code adds a check on an attempted attack. If you're not on the lock list, you can't land an attack, so the server can skip processing on your attack at that point and save processing of hits, misses, damage, etc.
    -NPC checks AOE damage for 'cast by', if not in lock list, no damage taken, no further calculations on that AOE this 'tick'.
    -NPC checks on any aggro situation to only adjust hate status on lock list members.
    -NPC clears LockList at the same time it clears Hate List.
    Dalyrina likes this.
  12. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    There you go.

    If someone put up their own conflicting theory. We could see if theirs hold up better than mine.

    Of course, test patch soon. You can check my work real time.
  13. Moforyguy12345 Augur

    So doesn't the new server release in like 16 days? Are they going to announce when the test server is updated? I'd like to actually test it so its not a complete cluster fudge at launch and they have time to fix it if need be. Times ticking pretty fast.
  14. pipedreams3 Journeyman

    It takes months to properly test an implementation like this. Test server is just to make sure the world doesn't physically crash as players try different types of encounters. Oakwynd is the test.
  15. Moforyguy12345 Augur

    Yeah Oakwynd launch is the real test but I would still like to have to some time to test it out before launch. If there's issues not sure how they band aid it in such short time frame.
  16. Taemek Lorekeeper

    Im itching to come back and play this new server.
  17. Trox2010 Augur

    It should be on the Test server with this Tuesday's patch; hopefully will be enough time to sort out the biggest issues with the server prior to launch.
  18. Dalyrina Elder

    Considering the patch goes to live on the 16th I'd expect whatever gets deployed to test tomorrow will essentially be the same thing the server launches with unless there's some absolutely catastrophic bug that made it's way into the build.

    A serious company that actually respects and values it's customers would have had this on Test for the April cycle in order to flesh out the issues out that will most definitely exist but alas here we are.
  19. Kazzuk Elder


    Lose hate in any way and the mobs unlock "in a short while" according to the FAQ, or simply /yell at them as you add them to the train so they are unlocked before even getting to the camp then the original hate mechanics take over.

    Look, the simplest solution for FTE as they described is simply locking and unlocking the hate list....with all of the original hate list mechanics... I suspect strongly this is what they are planning on. Which means this only adds an additional step for training or PLing and opens up huge avenues for cherry picking single desirable mobs for classes that can drop hate.
  20. Koniku Elder

    You guys acting like a new ruleset has ever gone live without bugs and issues are making me laugh