Didn't think the heritage crate change through did you?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by globeadue, Apr 20, 2023.

  1. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Quality post by Wyre again.

    Trading cards can be sold for real world dollars immediately after purchase, without exchange, and their price can fluctuate. They are even more like gambling than EQ Loot Crate, but still not gambling.
  2. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Getting the piss-poor Wikipedia article rewritten will take time. I did find an attorney who is considering it, but he admits that it will not be a priority for him. But, I did find two articles that address the issue in a much more complete way.

    https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b329d767-56e6-4c9a-8897-e5d3fc32a81f

    https://www.skadden.com/-/media/fil...nsights/video_gaming_is_my_loot_box_legal.pdf

    From the first website,

    "Illegal Gambling
    A common thread among nearly all loot box litigations is allegations that loot boxes qualify as illegal gambling enterprises. In general, federal and state laws define gambling as an activity that risks something of value upon an outcome subject to chance in exchange for a thing of value.

    However, it is still largely undetermined if loot boxes meet this definition. Some plaintiffs have argued that loot boxes have subjective, nonmonetary value in the form of added enjoyment. However, most courts do not consider a virtual item that can be obtained from a loot box a thing of value."

    First, time for a really obvious statement. The law has NOT kept pace with the growth of the digital world.

    Second, my local congressman (I live in the USA) agrees that it is an issue that needs to be looked at. I don't get the feeling it is his biggest priority. Translation: Don't hold your breath.

    Third, while governments legislate, the digital world will continue to evolve and it seems unlikely that laws will ever please everyone in this area.
  3. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

  4. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Is it possible that means I'm right, all along? When I said the law proves me right?

    I need to read that again.

    Help me out here anybody. Does that mean EQ Loot Crates are not gambling, as it stands legally right now?
  5. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    But every country, state, county, territory, etc.. gets to define "gambling" hence the reason none of this has been written into law by the majority of the world.

    Ya'll just need to stop arguing if it is or is not. because in some places it is, some places it isn't, making both sides of the argument a moot point. It both is and is not gambling at the very same time. Where you are and the status of the laws governing that parcel of land are what matter.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  6. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    No.

    Because you're taking a single country's definition and decision about ANOTHER GAME's loot crate system. Also, you can receive real money for items out of the Heritage crates. Albeit against DBG policy.


    Quit manipulating facts to make it appear that you (or Waring) are right. Neither of you are 100% right nor are you 100% wrong.

    Just drop it.
  7. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    'Against DBG Policy' makes it not gambling by the 'by any OFFICIAL MEANS' clause.

    As it stands right now in the state I live in. So that makes me right for the state I live in, right now. So that makes me right in this little joust.

    This argument is highly unimportant. But Gambling addictions are important to many I'm sure, and predatory practices should be regulated. I've said that before.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Posting a random quote from an unknown source when others have posted information showing that countries consider it gambling and regulating it as gambling?
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Now you are changing the goal post and the state you live in doesn't make the rules for how something is considered in the rest of the world.
  10. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    No it does not. That is not what "any official means" means. Unless you are gaining the money illegally, which you wouldn't be. DPG may not like it, that doesn't make it illegal.
  11. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    It doesn't say Legal.

    It says official. Which means 'official means PROVIDED BY THE COMPANY IN QUESTION'.
  12. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    He pulled that from one of my sources explaining why the first round of legislation to make Loot Crates classified as gambling had failed (I believe this was against Epic?) Anyways it has nothing to do with EQ heritage crates as they operate in specifically different ways. In that case, the items were "bound" to your account. EQ's are tradable and thus can be exchanged for money
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  13. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    No. I'm sorry. Just because you choose to interpret it as such, does not make it the case. Please stop doing that and calling it fact.
  14. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    In one of the sources I linked it was noted that France only treats loot crates as gambling if they could be traded for real life money which would also fit the cases described.
  15. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    My additions in orange.
  16. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    So be it.
  17. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Oh sorry, one more. Just for worldwide instead of my personal state.

    I do apologize. I'll be quiet now, I don't need to say any more. You can silence me, but you can't prove me wrong.
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Asking you to provide sources is not trying to silence you and just because loot crates remain unregulated doesn't mean they are not gambling.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Kaenneth like this.
  19. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Just wanted to note, I hope your attorney friend doesn't spend any of your earned friendship capital over it. :) I shouldn't have asked you to call in such a favor.

    I would be interested to know their position if one was formulated and relayed to you.

    You document links are excellent. The second is 'signed' by people willing to stand by their words with their name.

    I think we've learned, from what Wyre rightly points out, and what your and other links have shown:

    There is no single answer to "Are EQ Loot Crates Gambling?" Every country, and even different states in the U.S. can have a different definition of Gambling.

    If we can't settle on one definition for Gambling, we can't answer the question.
  20. Bobokin Augur


    Booby prizes make it not gambling? So if a slot machine spits out a token for a 5 cent plastic army man on every $5 pull, it wouldn't be gambling? Why don't you try that and see what state and federal gambling regulators think about it.

    You get what you pay for every time? You actually believe a Pings Potion Pack of invisibility is worth $5? How about a level 65 necklace in a level 120 game? What about an ornament that you already have 5 of and can't sell because most other players already have 5 of them?

    Your premises are absurd.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Kaenneth like this.