Didn't think the heritage crate change through did you?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by globeadue, Apr 20, 2023.

  1. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Random from a known list. And that is not the definition of Gambling. All possible outcomes are known.

    You're confusing Random=Uncertainty. You're wrong.

    Outcomes are certain. Nothing is ever lost, nothing is ever risked.

    EQ Loot Crates are easily and demonstrably not gambling. Period.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Now you are trying to claim that the loot chests don't give you a random item and you know exactly the item you are going to get when you open it?
  3. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Please please try to read and understand.

    No. I'm not saying that.

    I'm saying you know for ABSOLUTE Certainty you will get ONE of the RANDOM items. You don't know which you will get. That is random, NOT UNCERTAIN.

    100% chance you will get one of the items from the list selected at random. That is 100% certainty you know what you will get in advance.

    Random selection of a known list is NOT an "uncertain outcome", and therefore NOT gambling.
  4. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Just because you know all the possible results of a loot chest doesn't make it a "certain" outcome and not gambling. You can say the same thing about any of the games that casinos offer as they are required by law to list all the possible outcomes, probabilities, and payouts.
  5. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    You keep trying to pick it apart, you're wrong.

    It has to all qualify.

    At a 'casino' any 'game' they offer which is considered Gambling, will have the RISK of you gaining NOTHING. The outcome is uncertain. That qualifies in every way.

    EQ Loot Crate you risk nothing, you are certain of all possible outcomes. That qualifies in no way.

    It's not gambling period.
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Getting a random item from a loot crate means that the outcome is uncertain. It doesn't matter that you know all the possible items that you could get from it as the item that you get is going to be random.
  7. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Which is why I gave the further example of how Random from a known list is not gambling.

    The gumball vendor can go to a novelty wholesaler and buy a bag of little toys that are all the same value.

    Gambling may gain the gambler or the house, because every outcome is not the same value. Over all the house will always win, it's gambling, it's set up that way.

    You may want a mount more, but it's just pixels. Every KNOWN outcome on the random selection list is worth exactly the same value, exactly what you paid, you never had the slightest chance to lose anything in the trasaction.

    That is a vending machine, giving you one random item from the hopper of known items. It is not gambling.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And you have been repeatedly been asked to provide actual sources and and not just make more claims about how you think it is.

    People have provided sources and evidence showing that loot crates are considered gambling and all you do is make some random claim about loot crates being the same as gumball machines or the outcome is "certian" because you know all possible results.
  9. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    A purchase is subject to Caveat Emptor. It's your responsibility to know what you're buying, and it's clearly marked.

    This is a purchase not a bet. This is not gambling.
  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Is it not gambling, and so no need for a 'Gambling Operator License' in Netherlands?

    Or does Daybreak/Darkpaw have a 'Gambling Operator License' for the Netherlands. That could be one way you'd prove me wrong. :D
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That doesn't change the fact that loot crates are gambling.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    ??? What are you trying to suggest with that statement?
  13. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Proves you are wrong. They are not gambling.
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    You could prove yourself right by having Daybreak/Darkpaw say "Yes we hold a valid Gambling Operator License for EU countries that require one and we do business in."
  15. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You making a claim and asking a question doesn't prove anyone wrong.

    ???? I still don't get what you are trying to stay with this statement. Just because a company is or isn't in compliance with a law doesn't change the status of loot crates being gambling.
  16. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    By whose authority do you proclaim what gambling is?

    You haven't refuted this statement as a definition of Gambling.

    I have shown how EQ Loot Crates do not follow this definition in any way.

    This is why I say not gambling.

    We can agree to disagree. As I already said.

    Clearly I have not proven to your satisfaction you are wrong.

    You have not proven me wrong, nor yourself right to my satisfaction.

    That's OK by me.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    ????? Still not sure what you are trying to get at here. Daybreak being registered or not in the Netherlands doesn't change how they classify loot crates as gambling.


    Yes, getting a random item from a loot crate is an uncertain outcome and knowing the possible results and the probabilities doesn't change that.
  18. Angahran Augur

    Hmm, now if you could go the the store and purchase any of the crate items for 799, and had the option to sell your unwanted crate items for 799 (or even 700), that would get rid of a lot of the complaints.

    If all crate items are the same value then just add an NPC that will take any crate item and return another random one from the same crate.

    And to the OPs post, I'm guessing that DB were not thinking that people were actually wanting to get items that they could not use.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  19. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Are Pokemon cards, Magic the Gathering cards, and sports cards considered gambling (in the eyes of the law or people)?

    I think the crates are closer to card packs.
  20. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    https://800gambler.org/are-trading-...ks,practices encourage gambling-like behavior.

    Waring_McMarrin and MasterMagnus like this.