Didn't think the heritage crate change through did you?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by globeadue, Apr 20, 2023.

  1. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Something great about EQ and MMOs was the equality. For $15/mo, everyone was on the same playing field. Having an illusion or amount meant you accomplished something in the game. The only way to bypass that was to use bannable 3rd party transactions. EQ gave everyone an equal opportunity to succeed. Loot crates have watered down EQ, filling it full of microtransaction garbage that devalues so much of what is obtain through the gameplay.
  2. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    The heritage stuff is mostly just cosmetic.
  3. Tyranthraxus Grognard

    The funny part about this change is I guarantee the people who were complaining about not being able to use the items they got from heritage crates, wanted the ports and mounts to be made available early.

    The opposite happened and now everyone got screwed, especially the company as no one will bother to spend cash on the crates outside of era now. They will be limited to the occasional folks who spend their 500 dbc on a crate instead of taking the xp pot.
  4. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    No, it is literally not what you would pay for a mount if it was sold individually. If you were to pay for the mount directly, it would be much higher price than 799, likely in the realm of 2500 to 5000 DC depending on the mount and what it did.
    Items having more intrinsic value than others does not make it gambling. The item with the least intrinsic value is the one with the 799 value in DC. The ones with more intrinsic value would all cost more than 799 if they were sold individually. None of the items would be sold individually for less than 799. There is no risk of loss. Gambling requires loss. If there is no loss, there is no gambling.
    If the slot machine always dispenses at least what you put in it is not gambling, because you risk nothing. However slot machines don't work like that, they have minimum returns at times, but those returns do not equal what you pay into it. That is why they are gambling.

    All the items given in the crates would be sold for at least 799 individually, many of them would sell for more.
    False premise, the Shadowhaven does not work like loot crates do. You can manipulate what you can get in the Shadowhaven casino for one. There are also several rewards in the Shadowhaven Casino which have explicitly less value than what you put in:


    Several of those prizes cost less than what the token costs, and you can get nothing for it. You are always guaranteed an item with a value of 799 DbC with the Crates. The Shadowhaven Casino is 100% gambling.

    The Heritage crates are not gambling. In fact the entire rest of EQ is more akin to gambling than the Heritage crates and LoN Prizes are. Using the extremely loose and non-traditional definition of gambling used by those in this thread, everytime we kill mobs is gambling, and it is even moreso the case because most mobs give nothing or considerably less than what most people invest into the game.
    Sunawar likes this.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    No matter how you try to spin it loot crates are still gambling as the definition doesn't depend on what the possible rewards are. It also doesn't matter that it is claimed that every item in the crate is worth 799 DBC as there are many that are worthless to the person who wins them. Not matter how you look at it they are designed to get you to spend much more than 799 in DBC to keep opening them until you get what you want.

    In fact I would argue that many of the items in a crate are not worth 799 (or even 500 that you can purchase them with your monthly claim). Many of the items I find are not worth the trouble to try and find a buyer and I can't convert them back into DBC to try for something that I actually want.
    Rijacki likes this.
  6. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    The Definition most definitely does depend on what the possible results are. For thousands of years gambling has exclusively been games of chance in which you wager something that you can lose some or all of you wager for the chance to possibly win more than your wager. If you get at least the value of what you wager back, then you are not wagering.

    What the items are worth to the person does not matter at all. What the items are actually valued at is what matters. Just because you do not want an item does not make the item actually worthless. How you personally value the items does not matter. The items have value independent of anyone. The lowest of those values is the 799. As I mentioned in my previous post post, under your definition the entirety of EQ and for that matter literally all MMORPGs that have ever existed are explicitly gambling and the games themselves should be banned.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling


    I don't see anything in the wiki definition of the term that includes that value of the prize that you win. All it says is that a person wagers something (The DBC they spend) for a risk (random item from the crate) for a prize (chance to get the item they want). With the more desirable items being more rare it is possible to have to open dozens of them in order to get what you want.
  8. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Wikipedia is at the heart of the change to definiton of words movement. People change at will what the entries say, and the vast majority of time there is no oversight regarding the changes.

    Use any actual dictionary and you will get the definiton to be like "An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance." The keywords are winning and losing. You are not losing anything in Crates. You not getting what you want is not the same as you losing. The Merriam-Webster definition of gambiling is "the practice or activity of betting: the practice of risking money or other stakes in a game or bet." Again you not getting exactly what you want is not the same as you losing, nor is it a game or bet. You get an item that is at least equal in value to what you spent for the item. Whether or not you want that specific item does not matter, what matters is that the value of that item is at least 799.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    Point me to the source of your definition that shows that loot chests are not gambling. As has been pointed out in this thread multiple time there are countries out there that regulate loot chests as gambling.
    Rijacki likes this.
  10. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    I did, Merriam-Webster, and pretty much every dictionary in existence for at least the past 300+ years.

    Have you ever actually read laws? The politicians who write the laws regularly have to define things differently than the actual definition of a word. All bills have a definition section where they define how they mean for the words to be considered within the statute or law. This is doubly true with regulation agencies. The regulation agencies consistently ignore the common definition of words and replace them with something that at times conflicts with the common use of the word. All of the countries that have laws restricting or regulating Loot boxes have done these things; they introduced in the law a definition for gambling that conflicts with the common place and traditional definition of gambling. Those definitions of gambling actually allow them to consider MMORPGs in general as gambling because of how vague their definition is.
  11. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    Negative Ghostrider
    gamble

    1 of 2
    verb
    gam·​ble ˈgam-bəl


    gambled; gambling ˈgam-b(ə-)liŋ

    Synonyms of gamble


    intransitive verb
    1
    a
    : to play a game for money or property
    b
    : to bet on an uncertain outcome
    2
    : to stake something on a contingency (see contingency sense 1) : take a chance
    transitive verb
    1
    : to risk by gambling : wager
    2
    : venture, hazard
    gambler
    ˈgam-blər

    noun
    gamble
    2 of 2
    noun
    1
    a
    : an act having an element of risk
    b
    : something chancy
    2
    : the playing of a game of chance for stakes
    Definition of gamble verb from the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
    gamble

    verb

    /ˈɡæmbl/

    /ˈɡæmbl/
    Verb Forms
    Phrasal Verbs
    ​[intransitive, transitive] to risk money on a card game, horse race, etc.
    • gamble (at/on something) to gamble at cards
    • to gamble on the horses
    • gamble something (at/on something) I gambled all my winnings on the last race.
    Definition of gamble verbfrom the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
    gamble

    verb

    /ˈɡæmbl/

    /ˈɡæmbl/
    Verb Forms
    Phrasal Verbs
    1. ​[intransitive, transitive] to risk money on a card game, horse race, etc.
      • gamble (at/on something) to gamble at cards
      • to gamble on the horses
      • gamble something (at/on something) I gambled all my winnings on the last race.
      Extra Examples
      • She became depressed and began to gamble heavily.
      • He doesn't drink or gamble any more.
    2. ​[transitive, intransitive] to risk losing something in the hope of being successful
      • gamble something (on something) He's gambling his reputation on this deal.
      • gamble with/on something It was wrong to gamble with our children's future.
      • gamble that She gambled that he wouldn't read it before she reached the airport
    gamble
    verb
    us/ˈɡæm.bəl/ uk/ˈɡæm.bəl/

    [ I ]
    to do something that involves risks that might result in loss of money or failure, hoping to get money or achieve success:
    Anyone who gambles on the stock exchange has to be prepared to lose money.

    C2 [ I or T ]
    to risk money, for example in a game or on a horse race:
    I like to gamble when I play cards - it makes it more interesting.
    He gambles on the horses (= horse races).
    He gambled away all of our savings.
    gamble
    [ gam-buhl ]
    See synonyms for: gamble / gambled / gambling / gambler on Thesaurus.com
    verb (used without object), gam·bled, gam·bling.
    to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
    to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

    verb (used with object), gam·bled, gam·bling.
    to lose or squander by betting (usually followed by away): He gambled all his hard-earned money away in one night.
    to wager or risk (money or something else of value): to gamble one's freedom.

    noun
    any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty.
    a venture in a game of chance for stakes, especially for high stakes.
    (gæmbəl [IMG] )
    Word forms: gambles plural3rd person singular present tense, gambling present participle, gambled past tense past participle
    1. countable noun
    A gamble is a risky action or decision that you take in the hope of gaining money, success, or an advantage over other people.


    2. transitive verb/intransitive verb
    If you gamble on something, you take a risky action or decision in the hope of gaining money, success, or an advantage over other people.


    3. transitive verb/intransitive verb
    If you gamble an amount of money, you bet it in a game such as cards or on the result of a race or competition. People who gamble usually do it frequently.
    1 gamble /ˈgæmbəl/ verb
    gambles; gambled; gambling
    Britannica Dictionary definition of GAMBLE
    1

    [no object] : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things
    • I like to gamble.
    • He's been drinking and gambling heavily.
    • gambling at cards
    — often + on
    • She likes to gamble on football games.
    2
    [+ object]
    a : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet
    • He would often gamble hundreds of dollars on a hand of poker.
    b : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something
    • She gambled [=risked] everything she owned to start the business.
    — often + on
    • The company is gambling [=betting, risking] everything on this strategy.
    3

    : to do something that could have the good result that you want or a bad result that you cannot control
    [no object]
    • The mayor is gambling with the city's future.
    • people who lost money gambling in the stock market
    — often + on
    • Many people are willing to gamble on the new treatment. [=are willing to try the new treatment because they hope it will help them]
    [+ object]
    • The mayor is gambling that the new policies will help rather than hurt the city.
    gamble away

    [phrasal verb]
    gamble away (something) or gamble (something) away
    : to lose (something, such as money) by gambling
    • She gambled away her inheritance.
    • gambling away the city's future
    — gambler

    /ˈgæmblɚ/ noun, plural gamblers [count]
    • The casino attracts many wealthy gamblers.
    • a compulsive gambler
    2 gamble /ˈgæmbəl/ noun
    plural gambles
    Britannica Dictionary definition of GAMBLE
    [count]

    : something that could produce a desired result or a bad or unpleasant result : risk


    gamble
    From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English
    gam‧ble1 /ˈɡæmbəl/ ●●○ verb [intransitive, transitive]
    1 to risk money or possessions on the result of something such as a card game or a race, when you do not know for certain what the result will be → bet

    2 to do something that involves a lot of risk, and that will not succeed unless things happen the way you would like them to
    gamble


    ​verb intransitive/transitive
    US /ˈɡæmb(ə)l/
    Word Forms
    DEFINITIONS 2
    1. to risk money or something valuable in the hope of winning more if you are lucky or if you guess something correctly

    2.to do something that involves risks but may result in benefits if things happen as you hope they will

    Gambling – definition and meaning

    Gambling is the practice or act of playing games of chance for a stake. In most cases, the stake is money. However, if the gambler has run out of money, the stake could include any possession. It is the noun of the verb to gamble. The term means the same as betting or wagering. We call somebody who bets a gambler. Gamblers bet on something that results either in a gain for them, or a loss.




    That's M-W, Cambridge, Oxford, The Free Dictionary, MacMillian, Market Buisness, Collins, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc..


    Want some more?
  12. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Feel free, all of them have a key point in common, that something is at risk of being lost. Nothing is at risk of being lost in the purchase of a heritage crate or a LoN prize. You get at least what you paid for, sometimes you get something with even more value.
    CatsPaws and MasterMagnus like this.
  13. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    You have to understand what the word "Risk" means.

    Luckily while you're looking at the dictionary you can compare the word Risk and the word Chance.
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    So to cut to the chase. I think maybe in the digital age some of you are too young to remember...

    This is no different than a GUMBALL MACHINE. You wanted the Gold Banana flavor, but you got Red Cherry.

    You are Purchasing a Chance of several Options. If you think none are worth it, you don't buy anything.

    You are Not Risking anything. Your Purchase Price was clearly marked. You can see the Options through the glass (here we start to get legal).

    Companies have figured out how to take advantage of your human nature (most like to 'gamble'). But rig up the system so it's like a gumball machine. At the end of the day, you are making a purchase, not a bet. You aren't risking anything.
    Sunawar and Xianzu_Monk_Tunare like this.
  15. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    And to get back to the central point of this thread.

    Now on certain servers the gumball machine only has Red and Green gumballs. Until next year when they get Gold.

    Before you could buy a gumball and have a chance at a Gold. But you couldn't chew it until next year.

    Before you could get that Gold gumball, and just wait till the first second you could actually chew it.

    Of course it created complaints for people who didn't understand why they couldn't eat the thing they just bought.

    So they want to curtail complaints, I get it.

    Seems like a bad choice, to me, overall.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I asked you to provide an example not just make a claim of where I could find your definition of the word and it seems the dictionary agrees with what is being said about loot crates being gambling.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And the definition doesn't exclude giving a reward with a claimed value as making something not gambling.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  18. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    You're wrong.

    Your continued failure to understand the meaning of words changes nothing.

    Loot crates are a purchase with multiple possible rewards. You're making a purchase not a bet. Which is in fact by definition not gambling.

    A gumball machine is not gambling it's a vending machine.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Sunawar like this.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Please provide a source that supports your view of what is and isn't gambling as many examples have been provided showing that loot chests are gambling and there are countries that regulate it as such.

    And trying to compare it to a gumball machine is a bit silly.
    Koshk and Kaenneth like this.
  20. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Here's another example if you're still struggling to understand.

    On Amazon I can order an item that comes in Assorted Colors, I don't get to choose the color. That's not gambling.

    I can buy a jar of jelly beans and can't know in advance what flavors I'll get.

    THAT IS NOT GAMBLING PERIOD.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.