Oakwynd Feedback

Can we get relaxed true box from the start or at least acknowledgement that devs would be willing to implement it early if the numbers aren't that great for grouping? The perks on the server wont be that great for the first few expansions so aside from the new mechanic it'll be a fresh start server which was just done last year. True box would alleviate some of the pain from people not wanting to roll right back into something they did less than a year ago and people not liking the new mechanic lack of perks etc.

Pulling has been trivialized and a dead mechanic for years. You don't need "pulling classes" anymore. Anyone can do it. Wake up, it's 2023, not 1999. If you need a puller grabbing singles in this game, still get better.

The primary thing FTE would help is Doze's scenario of toxic and idiotic gameplay where you intentionally decide to pull straight through a group like an imbecile. People claim its thought free pulling and giving a hypothetical situation that shouldn't ever be a thought in the first place. Typical TLP behavior I guess.

this dude been playing group content on a warrior for 2 decades don’t question his knowledge lol

I cant tell if he's trolling or not.

Are you really playing a warrior when you spend most your time getting rezzed?

Just so we're all still clear.

They intend to do exactly as stated in their revised statement.

Don't listen to people who keep saying, "we can't know" what will happen, or worse, "YOU can't know what will happen."

Many of us have enough reading comprehension and logical train of thought to understand how the new mechanic works. Some of us also have enough software development knowledge to understand how they will implement this mechanic.

I said Engage=Aggro long before JChan confirmed.

The only other pieces you need to understand are:
- FTE adds a LockList. Your Raid/Group/Self are added to the LockList immediately upon Aggro of the mob (first character to enter the mobs empty hate list by any means at all, initiated by player or mob).

-/yell [npctarget] is only available to the people on the LockList. Once /yell is issued on a mob, "Anyone can Attack it". But the names on the LockList remain the same, until the mob is "Out Of Combat" and subsequently "the Original Lock is removed" (LockList is cleared).

In the example of dragging a train, they won't peel off on to another group, they are locked already. Social aggro = aggro = engage.

But if aggro is completely dropped they will wait to be "Out Of Combat", wait to begin pathing back (same as a feign timing), and "Original Lock is removed". If the mob is walking back to spawn and can aggro on to another group (it's hate list and lock list are empty) it will aggro on.

So yes you can 'drop trains', but not quite so directly targeted and without warning, as before.

Here's another hint, I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned.

FTE's LockList, is a performance improvement. At least in the mold of other changes they've been making.

When anyone tries to attack the mob, if that character is not on the LockList, the server can immediately stop trying to calculate anything about that attack.

My brother in Rallos; Half of the replies in the last 10 pages are yours. Consider calming down. No one in this thread is personally attacking you. If you read your own posts you've called half the people in it morons.

That being said I can't wait to take your nameds with my lvl 40 shaman

i think folks are grasping at straws about disliking FTE.

it's interesting we got people who say FTE will be a toxic wasteland and then others saying it will be carebear - so which is it?

If you're so confident about your tagging ability - why are you so against it?

if it's going to be sooooooo easy, why the concern?

it's already soooo easy to 6 box necro take 9/10 regular players' camps/named.

all the people that are ok with FTE have probably been ks'd by the standard 6 box mage/necro group or other meta scenario like click wanders or sk's on lower lvl mobs. So the notion of it's "so easy" is relative. A person that didn't have the means or the desire to multibox is no longer at a disadvantage while competing for a named. It's really that simple.

This right here is a Christmas miracle story... I'm guessing you never camped any vt or vp key pieces, epic drops, sol b or lguk named, or ancient cyclops in era for this to be true.

I'm with him, though. Sure i've been KS'ed, but it's trivial. The amount of times that I've been ksed in the decades where it actually mattered I can also count on one hand. If people get my EXP, or cyclops, i don't really care. eventually I get another one, some friends or I move on. I don't need to remember it for years and be so upset to protest the changing of game mechanics.

i doubt it.

ssra keys, storms keys (before mischief), vt, vp - all had significant ks'ing on all 3 tlp's i participated on.

that's what most people do

this is what you're doing if you weren't aware

I also was never picked on in RL, ever think maybe it's you and not the mechanics? I've done all of those things and I stand by my statement.. the amount of times people are trained or KS'd is negligable compared to the amount of time this game has been around...

I stand by what I said before if they really wanted to fix KS'ing and Training they would move to a personal loot system and make grey mobs not drop loot. The best way to fix an issue is to remove the motivation for the bad behavior.

you can disagree, but your experience is definitely not the norm.

i've accepted ks'ing at it stands in dps races - my illustration of the key pieces is that ks'ing is common, and not uncommon as you appear to make it. it's definitely not a "me" problem as you insinuate. the devs have posted fte is to combat ks'ing - so it obviously does happen more than the experience you've shared.

Also, how hard is it to not belittle people based on an opinion about a game mechanic while discussing a 24 year old video game? pretty hard for you it seems. grow up.

Since this is a "experiment" TLP could we just get a Kunark start? I know its a WILD idea but it'd also help with launch clutter and would be the first time ever starting in Kunark. Waiting til Kunark isn't the same as a launch party we all know that.

The ruleset and gimmick are fine.

A handful of big boxers earn a lot of USD through boxing 50+ characters and doing raid content, selling all of the loot themselves.

Whenever their profits begin to dry up they use the box army to demand a new server on the forums. It happened leading to the instantly-dead Rizlona (no-truebox). Instead of having two Aradunes we had the worst queues of all-time.

Now it's the same thing again. These same guys (who use cracked software) have been milking whales on Mischief for two years and the profits are drying up. So back to the forums with the army. They will do this every year until they get their way, and the server will be dead on arrival just like Rizlona.

I'm pretty certain DPG sees right through this now. It may look like an army of players posting to an average forum visitor, but DPG understands it's all coming from the same ~10 players.

LOL not like raiding content is that hard either.

So if hate = aggro then what happens if 2 people are standing by a mob?
what determines who the mob aggros and therefore rewards the tag to?
No one can hit faster than 1 ms, so hate will be handed out randomly?
Or is there a second or two before the mob reacts?
This is gonna be a pooop storm

you're missing the point, maybe intentionally

dude went on a multi-post rampage calling others imbeciles referencing *only* group content. many of us are disappointed about losing a competitive feature of end-game raiding. was it hard? well yeah, in a way it was. i mean not everyone could just wake up and lead that guild. it was sometimes whoever brought more monks and wizards and assembled faster, but it was also strategic and social. we always thought about it, we rolled more alts, we recruited more, we designed systems to assemble faster, we built a culture around it. it was/is fundamental to our experience of the game. hell, part of the reason we wanted to raid was to improve our gear so we can secure more kills and beat other guilds, it was a substantial part of the gameplay loop. and personally, coming with rag-tag guild and somehow outplaying and beating the 'top guild' in a dps race is an extremely rewarding experience that makes up some of my most fond memories throughout the years

does this make it even easier? yep now i can just train a whole zone and /yell a raid boss near my friends. raid boss is rooted? ok ill just train everything else in a big invulnerable circle while the raid moves in. to say this isn't different from the current meta in which FD classes pull mobs carefully out of groups is disingenuous. experienced monks are highly valued right now, because it is simply not trivial or some kind of throwaway skill.

pulling in raids in EQ is a meta game in its own. it's the type of thing that games that copy EQ like pantheon and monsters and memories are trying to artificially recreate as part of the EQ experience. EQ itself? "naw we're over it, time for change"

to say that FTE, as written, won't impact how pulls work in raids is just a lack of imagination, and for that i cant help you. we are going to exploit the ever-living crap out of it. you could say, OK than just 'DoNt ExPlOiT' but you have to understand, in a FIRST TO ENGAGE environment, especially if you're not even the one doing the pulling, if the strategy exists and guild a is doing it, you are simply incentivized to participate in it on guild b-e. when staring at an easy solution that makes your raid twice as fast, why not do it? not only that, but FTE means we are asked to go as quickly as possible to get that tag. that is the reward component of the feedback loop in the new system, and if asked to go through a loop for reward, players will come up with the trajectory for the fastest possible route through that loop

FTE and the the COMBO of heirloom + unlimited instances are two different things we're concerned about. some are saying one is carebear, and the other is hardcore. some are saying losing trains is carebear but I dont think most experienced are saying this. they're observing and laughing nervously about how it changes raiding

both foster a toxic wasteland environment. one because it makes it 100% times easier to ks raid and epic mobs out from under a preparing group/raid, and two because it completely removes your ability to prepare carefully, because now if it's spawned, you're going NOW. and three, legacy just encourages endless instance raiding. i mean really endless. we're talking about competitive high-end guild raiding in this case. just think of selos, where they allowed for twice as much raiding, so what did we do? twice as much raiding OR you said screw it and skipped selos. the option exists, so our leaders and officers will encourage us to take it. if we don't, we'll be missing out on progressing our characters, so the server burns people out and goes on life support quickly.

all this when we know that in a year another server will come out with a different ruleset. we don't need to 'prove' to ourselves that oakwynd is going to burn us out. we can think through the implications right now

so who cares about competitive high end raiding? i guess not enough customers, since DBG is willing to sacrifice the lamb in all xpacs and eras to 'attempt' to avoid some training and ks tickets in classic-velious. say what you will about not respecting how others want to the play the game all you want, because both of these changes alienate what i consider to be a large group of TLP enjoyers.

"good riddance" then? welp if you're ok with a less populated server, then oakwynd will be just fine. it's just an old video game after all. may be mitigated at launch by the fact it's the first time in a while we only get 1 server, almost like they know and are accepting of the fact that their experimental ideas are going to be less popular.

i'll play it for a while like i always do, just to see it develop as 'jokewynd' and get a lot of i told you so's in, c u in thurgadin

Same man, same. I have no idea how many thousands of hours I have on TLPs but from as much as people complain about KSing and training here you'd think that's all that goes on in the game. I've had both happen to me, sure, but it's happened so little I've never come close to feeling like I needed to complain about it.

Isn't high-end "competitive" raiding drastically changed by the existence of AoC? And with the lock-out being character vs account, won't that actually be a bigger change to raiding entirely? Unless I am missing something why would you -need- to race another guild to get the raid if you can both just request it from the AoC?

Honestly, the rest of your post was "here is my excuse for why we need to be utter prats to any other player just because we can" which is pure unmitigated bovine excreta. Nothing "forces" you to go out of your way to grief other players and if that is how you get your fun, I feel sorry for you.