Didn't think the heritage crate change through did you?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by globeadue, Apr 20, 2023.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You are buying a chance at a random item that may or may not have any value to you which is why it is gambling.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Just because you get "something" out of it doesn't mean that it isn't gambling as the item you get is random and many of the items that people want are fairly rare and require them to open many loot crates in order to get what they want.

    When someone opens a crate and gets something that is useless to them what value does it provide them? In the end games of chance are still gambling just called something different in order to make it more acceptable to do.
    Wyre Wintermute and Fenthen like this.
  3. Tappin Augur

    Both are predatory, both elicit similar responses from the user, but one is considered gambling, but the other is not? Another case of the law lagging behind the digital times.
  4. Bobokin Augur


    Loot boxes are gambling. Gambling is the risk exchanging stakes for winnings. The only way they would not be would be is if they cost nothing, and they do cost - even for those who get DBCash for logging in once each month. Everything has opportunity costs.
    Wyre Wintermute and Fenthen like this.
  5. Bobokin Augur

    That's similar to a booby prize. It is still gambling. If it wasn't so, all rewards would have equal value and equal odds of obtaining.

  6. Bobokin Augur


    Games of chance are, by definition, gambling if they have a stake and have winnings.

    Playing cards for enjoyment - not gambling.

    Playing cards for an anti, bet, or pot - gambling.

    Even church raffles are gambling. Can you honestly say that it doesn't matter if a person wins a keychain, lawn mower, or a car for their $10 tickets.
    Rijacki and Fenthen like this.
  7. minimind The Village Idiot

    Gambling, not gambling -- it can be solved with a mathematically correct option:

    Buy a Heritage Crate for 1,000 DbC (I don't know how much they cost, but stay with me). Every crate has the following probabilities (that I just made up):
    • 2% Mount
    • 5% Illusion
    • 10% Familiar
    • 15% Teleporter
    • 15% Picture
    • 53% Hero's Forge armor set
    Also, while that crate is live, you can "Buy it Now" for a price based on the probabilities of getting it from the crate:
    • 50,000 DbC: Mount
    • 20,000 DbC: Illusion
    • 10,000 DbC: Familiar
    • 6,666 DbC: Teleporter
    • 6,666 DbC: Picture
    • 1,868 DbC: Your choice of Hero's Forge Armor
    That way you know the odds (fully informed) and can simply buy the item if you want to. If you only want to spend 1,000 DbC and still want a mount, you can make the informed decision to take a chance in the same way that I spend hours and hours for the chance of an item dropping in game.
    Fenthen likes this.
  8. Monkeychunks Augur

    You know the bottom line is really......one does not even have to pay. Use your monthly DBC and get it free.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and minimind like this.
  9. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]


    How about a new perk feature to ignore TLC and unlock everything out of season in the market?
  10. minimind The Village Idiot

    That's what I do.
  11. Tappin Augur

    Do f2p accounts get 500 DBC every month? Q.E.D.
    Rijacki, Bobokin and Kaenneth like this.
  12. globeadue Lorekeeper


    1. They listened to complaints, but didn't ask the community as a whole to find out if the general consensus of the community wanted that change to crates or if it just was a small vocal group complaining about it,
    Do people need to start complaining about things working desirably to offset the people complaining?
    All they had to do was do update the description of the crate: "Contains Items that may not be usable on TLP's until they reach the expansion that unlocks their use"
    2. The patchwork fix to the client bug should of been a temporary fix while they figured out a real fix to the full screen mod bug. The start in windowed mode ruins my day every time i log in and my ui gets scrambled dropping from 2k to windowed mode resolution. I'm sick and tired of it and the reality is that I'm not going to renew my 4 accounts when their annual subscription runs out, and this headache is a contributing factor to my dissatisfaction playing EQ.
    rahzel44 likes this.
  13. Barraind Grumpy Old Bastage


    Legally, gambling requires 3 elements:

    Consideration (a wager)
    Risk (an element of chance)
    A prize (something you can win)

    Most publishers attempt to get around the concept of consideration by using nested purchases. The typical stance is "You arent purchasing a ticket for the raffle, you're purchasing an item, and using that item to enter the raffle, and since that item itself has no monetary value (because we say it has no monetary value), there is no consideration, and thus it isnt gambling".

    This is one huge reason most game companies refuse to acknowledge a secondary market (think Hasbro/WotC feigning ignorance that anyone ever sells any magic the gathering cards for cash, or that almost every retailer uses one of three major resellers to determine prices for those singles they absolutely dont sell, because there isnt a secondary market), and make it a public statement they consider RMT to be the worst kind of super evil bad there is. For them, it IS that bad, if they acknowledge there is an active secondary market for the currency they're selling to you under the guise of it having no real value, then it now has real value, consideration comes back into play, and hey look, you're gambling again.

    Its why every awful mobile game you have ever or will ever play doesnt let you buy anything that isnt fixed with money. You can spend $100 and get alternate-outfit LittleDebbie(UltraSuperExtraRare) in WalMarts Great Mascot Battles Ultimate VERSUS Online, but if you want to gamble on lootboxes, you have to use money and buy gems (which have no value), then use gems (which have no value) to 11-pull on the handle of the random thing dispenser. Because if you could pay cash to do it directly, it would be gambling.

    Risk (you are not guaranteed to know what you will get out of a lootbox) and Prize (hopefully you are getting SOMETHING out of that lootbox) are already assumed.

    Because there is roughly nothing to be gained with charging churches and schools for holding bingo nights and cake walks. The DA I worked for laughed when people complained about those, because the cost of man hours necessary to indict someone for those crimes would cost more than you would ever reasonably recover even if they immediately chose to settle.

    For carnival / boardwalk and larger operations, this has been regularly debated in the courts back to the 70's. Carnival games have been shut down in a few states, who then went on to carve out specific exceptions for them (Iowa was the first to do that), but to this day, they're still illegal in a chunk of states.

    Its like using the term Super Bowl in your company advertising. Its a violation of trademark rights to do so if you arent paying for licensing. But for anything to happen, the NFL has to weigh if its even worth going after you. They typically only do this for major advertisement campaigns, to maintain their trademark, without wasting money trying to go after the little sandwich shop that does 6k/day in sales across its 5 locations.
    Vumad and Nennius like this.
  14. Bobokin Augur

    Monthly DBC is not free.


    FTP players do not receive it at all without an outlay.

    All Access players have already paid for it, and it has opportunity costs. One cannot use the DBC to buy a heritage crate and use the same DBC to buy extra character slots, ornaments, or character level boosts.

    The only way heritage crates would be considered free is if everyone who logged in got one with no DBC and no All Access membership, and that wouldn't earn Daybreak any money.
    Rijacki likes this.
  15. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    I was going to say, There is an exact term for this type of gambling and Japan has strict laws about it:

    Gacha game

    Rijacki and Waring_McMarrin like this.
  16. Nuttmeg Augur

    This again? Haven't we already established that a slot machine that always dispenses 1 penny on a losing pull does not somehow magically mean its not gambling? "A chance to get nothing," has nothing to do with it.
  17. Herf Augur

    No, I'm not. When I pay 799 points, that is the amount I would pay for a mount, or perhaps some illusions. I would not pay that for the numerous craptastic armor sets. Armor sets which required you to pay a LOT more, per toon, to use.
  18. Herf Augur

    The proof that this is gambling is simple: the "casino" in Shadowhaven works just like loot crates do: you bet that you're going to get something worthwhile, hopefully.
    Vumad and Rijacki like this.
  19. Angahran Augur

    Nonsense. It's gambling because you are paying money with no control over what you get.
    Some items have more value than others.
    e.g. a painting that does nothing vs a teleport item or suit of HF armor.
    Nennius and Waring_McMarrin like this.
  20. Angahran Augur

    Here's a solution to the whole "Is it gambling?" question.
    Add an NPC to the game where you can hand in any loot crate item and they will give you another random item from that same crate.
    Herf likes this.