Please remove vendor sellback for Apparitional Cloak Fastener

#1 meta rule: never change loot rules during raid.
Should have brought it up before you started.

We sell all drops for DKP. You have the points earned and want to buy it. Go for it. No drama. If somebody is not doing the evolving cloak and needs one buy the regular cloak drop.

This.

Most guilds do use DKP systems but not every guild has a full time 54 person raid. Lots of guilds have about 50% or less players at 100%. While the 100% does technically contribute more, and they have the right to spend their DKP how they choose (I use my DKP late in the cycle so I can use my DKP to buy rots for alts), the guild does need to be utilitarian to be optimized. A guild letting a high playtime player munch up 3-4 T2 drops so they can recycle that into a different slot is probably not good, not this early into the expansion cycle. Our guild often changes the loot rules going into summer as raid drops increase and most of the raid force is geared. It make sense for the health of the guild over all to prohibit bidding on the same slot twice. Most importantly, all of the 100% attendance raiders in the guild, after gearing with DKP and currency, finish the farm cycles with an abundance of currency anyway. In that case the guild is front loading gearing players to beat raids already on farm in exchange for lower results in the long term. As for cloaks, a lot of players will not finish the cloaks. The ROI on the cloak is minimal compared to many other accomplishments in the game, so while it makes sense to recycle these into currency, it also makes sense to prevent people who are not going to wear an item bidding against a person who is going to wear it. It's just my opinion from an optimization stand-point.

ROI is subjective. Min/Max'ers will take an upgrade every time, regardless. If they have the DKP to spend, let them spend it how they choose. While I've been outbid by someone who "needed" an item less than I did, they earned and saved that DKP. I applaud them spending it how they wish.

Sounds like this wasn't a one time issue and it isn't about changing loot rules mid raid.

If they are wasting the raid's time as stated then that implies they dont like the rules and want to argue to change them - during the raid. Any suggestions for rule changes should happen after the raid. During the week on the guild forums or discord would be best.

I havent yet bid on a slot Im already bis, but if I did then Id bid the minimum bid and if anyone else that needs the item cant bid higher then thats their own choice.

And as I stated this doesn't sound like a one time event which means that the leadership should be aware of it and able to address the issue during non raid times. If it is causing enough drama to be brought up on these forums it is unlikely that anyone in the guild isn't aware of it and no reason why they can't have fixed it already.

ROI isn't that subjective. You are talking about the individual. I am talking about the guild. You speak as a mercenary. I am speaking as a patriot. Not trying to highroad you. I'm not you and I'm not your guild, both can do as they please.

Even if that item would go to go to a non-raiding alt? If the choice is between a high playtime player getting some extra currency now and possibly gearing slightly faster vs an alt getting a T2 raid item, I think I come down on the side of the main getting a bit of extra currency now.

That's been true in the past, but this expansion cycle, the dynamic has changed because each drop is slot specific. We don't know yet that we'll have overflowing loot later in the year.

This is what I've been doing. I'll throw out a minimum bid on the cloak fastener and if someone is willing to spend more than that, they can have it. But by throwing out a bid, it prevents it from going to alt bids. Nearly all of our T1 drops go to alts and have been since the first weeks of raids so I'm not worried about depriving someone from gearing up an alt.

Heck, mains can get by with a t1 cloak too.

We're in agreement.

If you didn't buy it, wouldn't that just be "selling"? Not "selling back".

I've been a class lead, an officer, raid leader, or guild leader in about 10 guilds over the last 23 years.
I assure you, that any guild or raid force that can not adapt to changes that take place over time in this game is doomed to fail.
Bickering about loot in Everquest is so 2002.
Every year is a loot pinata and there are so many people that get many alts geared up.
Tell them to grow up.

I think that point being made is that it should have never happened, or at most happened once and then never again. Things should have happened, and people should have argued about it after the raid and before the next raid it should have been resolved. If the arguments are happening every time the TS back piece drops, then there is a huge problem with the leadership and deeper problems than this.

And I think that is what this thread is suggesting.

If the arguments are repeating then there is no consensus.
The leadership decided one way and there are some people that wont accept the decision.

People aren't arguing over the back item. They're arguing over unclear rules and murky expectations.

Without clear rules and leadership willing to enforce them, people WILL find ways to get their panties in a twist. It's human nature. Got nothing to do with the back slot raid drop.