Since everyone is interested in how much of a change Sorce Vengeance made and Banestrike, etc here's what i have from tonight. I also have Ecliptic Fire 6 and all new worn focuses, etc. We did the hard version of this for achievements so it's a little lower than prob would be otherwise: Combined (23): Manifest Lethargy in 694s, 33.13B Damage @47.74M, 6. Kizant +Pets = 1.23B@1.82M in 678s {GM} Combined (51): Zun Centien in 601s, 32.00B Damage @53.24M, 7. Kizant +Pets = 1.14B@1.96M in 584s {7G} Combined (40): A fer`dator centi in 424s, 19.31B Damage @45.53M, 6. Kizant +Pets = 723.03M@1.88M in 385s {M} We spread out on this one so obviously the rank isn't important: Combined (25): Jakarashev in 464s, 14.49B Damage @31.24M, 2. Kizant = 772.93M@2.18M in 354s Combined (64): A warblood in 653s, 39.80B Damage @60.95M, 5. Kizant +Pets = 1.60B@2.56M in 624s {GM} Combined (30): Mutable Monstrosity in 541s, 24.93B Damage @46.07M, 4. Kizant +Pets = 1.11B@2.07M in 535s {G} Combined (37): Choreographer in 477s, 32.55B Damage @68.24M, 7. Kizant +Pets = 1.02B@2.15M in 473s {GM} Combined (47): Wearying Mass in 713s, 34.81B Damage @48.82M, 6. Kizant +Pets = 1.35B@1.98M in 681s {G} Combined (35): A cliknar nymph in 517s, 25.10B Damage @48.55M, 8. Kizant +Pets = 940.70M@1.99M in 473s {GM} Totals: Combined (352): Manifest Lethargy in 5084s, 256.11B Damage @50.38M, 5. Kizant +Pets = 9.88B@2.06M in 4787s {GM7GMGMGGMGGM}
I was browsing twitch last night and started watching an EQ stream of some druid - turns out it was a druid you were grouped with and I saw your name grouped with her! Small world
I’ve pointed out that non-crit nukes are so crappy compared to crit nukes that they were almost equivalent to a fully resisted spell. Especially in light of the fact that wizards are maliciously afflicted with the lowest critical percentage somehow despite the fact that nuke crits were invented for wizards. And that a disproportionately large percentage of our aas historically were spent on crits. Injustice aside… I’ve interpreted this buff sorceries vengeance as a solution to this issue. To make a non-crit less negligible. It is an overall mprovement ultimately. Does it improve us maliciously crippled nuke critting wizards in comparison to chosen class mages at all? Probably not. Not sure. But it’s surely an improvement to our dps.
My understanding is that sorcerer’s vengeance adds base damage but does not get multiplied in crit modifiers.
Sorcerer's Vengeance was changed to SPA 303 so that it does crit. That's why it's such a nice upgrade even without working on procs. The larger issue with non-crit damage being so low made sense a few years ago but after all the changes since then it's not really fair anymore. NoS wizards are better off than we've been in a long time. There's also no reason to create more overpowered classes so hopefully the next steps to tuning will be with other kinds of adjustments and not necessarily making wizards better. Although, I would like it if more of our abilities are worth using. i.e. Manaburn. Plus in addition to Manaburn my other thought is that our spell lineup should give serious consideration to cloudburst and wildmagic. We moved a bit too much to an Ethereal only lineup being optimal and I think that just makes the class boring. Although right now the wildmagic line is useful again but I think it could still be better positioned.
Thanks for posting your DPS updates and thoughts, Kizant. Appreciate them. The AAs and the banestrike will help. (Edit - you can ignore below as I'm reading the thread on it. Keeping text for reference) I was curious about the note here on wildmagic line being useful again - what are your thoughts here? I have kept it off the spell gems as I haven't specifically felt it added anything over other spells in the weave.
With Quick Time, Fury of the Gods, and enough procs it's something worth trying. I do keep this updated fairly often: http://dps.kizant.net
Nice parses. Do you raid as a wizard with any groups with less optimized ADPS and longer kill times? Curious to see what the change is both in terms of overall DPS and ranking. I don't know how ADPS-dependent wizards are relative to other DPS.
Very. Wizards have the highest crit damage multiplier so we're very dependent on the other classes' adps to boost critical rates (and we have the lowest natural crit rate through aas as well ... which still boggles my mind). If wizards are not criticaling, the dps is definitely a tier lower. Kizant's parses are great (I don't think there's another wizard out there who gets more out of raid dps than he does) but really don't give a full impression as to what a grouping (or solo) wizard puts out for dps or some of the challenges they face. But there are few and far between solo non-raiding wizards and not that many in box groups (that are smart ... mages are just plain better), so raid focus tends to be most wizard discussions. I was going to put together some dummy parses soon that's intended for non-raid wizards that highlight some things (spell comparison, proc comparison, some non-raid burn stuff, etc.) at a grouper level. But probably not until after bonus time. [Note: Kizant's dps webpage is outstanding, but the focus is on total dps comparison between things so it can be a little difficult to tease out smaller things. Plus you should always have an in-game test of any rotation once you've played with the website IMO.]
I really wonder what's the best weave now especially concern about the Ecliptic Fire 6, it's worth before the Ethereal Twist right now? Since in my parse, it now ranks #1 on average dmg (currently my weave is vortex-twist-ignition-claw-ecliptic-lunar and i take out claw if under twincast/ITC)
We have a lot of caster groups so sometimes I won't have a druid or enchanter but the more important thing is the raid having enough auspice. Just losing a druid or enc I might only lose 10% or so overall. Although, without enc a short burn will obviously suffer a lot. Rank wise we're kinda competing more with beastlords, shamans, and druids. Even with 20% less damage we should probably still beat zerkers, monks, bards, encs, rogues, and usually rangers. Sure there's one or two events where assassinate/headshot are big where that's not true but in general we're in a pretty good spot even though we're still far behind mages/necros like everyone else.
Ecliptic is pretty much always good but if you're solo and a mob has vortex effects it may not be worth it. I did PM Aristo asking if the max level could be adjusted. I'm kinda doubting it will but we'll see.
"Wizards have the highest crit damage multiplier " Just curious how do we have the highest? I'm still a TLP Wizard
Sorry, I meant when you add in our self adps. At least it used to be that way. I'll admit, I haven't looked at class comparison in a while.
So the question is - even with the dot nerf in December - Necro's still need to be chopped down? Also, why are mages so disgustingly over powered at 120? I know there has always been this competition between Wizards and Mages, and for a period of time a long time ago it was close - but what was it that made it such a wide gap?
I'm not a fan of the inflammatory language vis a vis "need to be chopped down" & "disgustingly over powered", especially as you seem to be asking about someone else's experience not even describing your own.
Playing with your dps tool, I tend to see otherwise: inserting EF6 into the standard burn weave (such as vortex-twist-ignition-lunar-claw-cloudburst) at any position lowers the overall damage. I've tried a bunch of different combinations, with varying adps too - but that spell always does less than simply not using it. The level 254 thing really sucks. How/when are you using it?
Like I said, if the mob has vortex effects it's not going to be worth it. But on raids vortex gets used up almost instantly. You can set the Vortex Effect Count to a low number to make it more realistic. I usually set it to 1 or 2 when considering raid burns. Setting it to 2 just means that you only get to use 2 vortex counters yourself each time the spell is cast. I don't really think Wizards compare to Mages since they've always been more of a utility class. Wiz/Rog/Zerker are more similar. They've just gotten a lot of upgrades and some abilities use semi-broken SPAs.
The question is, do you think class balance ever goes back to those three being consistently on top? Personally, I think the game is far too long in the tooth with far too many tangled cords for ideal balance anymore. But perhaps not.
