TLP idea - A Democratically-created server.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Phire, Mar 16, 2023.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    But that doesn't mean it is a good idea to create a poll to decide what the next TLP ruleset should be. There is a difference between reading various places that players leave feedback and considering it and using the results of a poll to make a decision.
  2. Phire Journeyman


    So basically you're saying they should just listen to the people who post excessively all the time, as opposed to trying to get an idea of what the community as a whole wants.

    The very fact you're trying to shoot down democracy by saying that the voting process just can't possibly work already gives me a pretty good idea of your political leanings as well, because that's a VERY familiar platform of a particular party.

    What I think you're really saying is that, you, personally, would try and corrupt the voting process by finding a way to abuse it and make it so only your ideas would be accepted.

    The regular forum poster doth protest this idea too much, methinks.
    code-zero likes this.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That is not even remotely close to what I am saying as there is a big difference between listening to what your player base is saying and tying the ruleset of a new server to a poll that can be easily manipulated. As I have said before game design, including deciding new server rules, is not a democracy and there is no expectation that the players have any say in what is decided. You are free to provide and suggestions you have for the a new server and the rules just like many others have done in this section of the forums.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Phire Journeyman

    You mean, all the other ones you constantly shoot down too?
  5. Kahna Augur


    Yeah, no. History has proven that EQ players are more than happy to rally the masses to vote for something that they know will be horrible. It happened with the 51/50 server. Live players didn't want a new server opening up that would impact their population so they voted in mass for the worst option. They succeeded and the server failed.

    Then there is another instance of EQ players shooting themselves in the foot on Fippy. Fippy's votes to open the new expansion only failed once. It failed not because the players didn't want the new expansion to open, but because the huddled masses were upset with the "elites" for blocking raid targets and wanted to punish them by forcing them to stay in the expansion for longer. After the failed vote the server population crashed and it was all downhill from there. EQ players don't actually know what they really want, and they are far too happy to sabotage the server and themselves if given a chance.

    If I recall Ragefire/lockjaw's 6 month unlocks were voted on as well. Great choice there, did wonderful things to the population, even before Phinny. Sure, Ragefire/Lockjaw had plenty of other issues contributing to it's pre-Phinny decline, but 6 month unlocks did not help.

    No voting, it doesn't reflect what the players really want (there are way too many vindictive EQ players out there happy to spoil it for everyone) and it just leads to poor choices.
    code-zero, Skuz, Appren and 1 other person like this.
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I am allowed to provide feedback on ideas just as others are allowed to provide suggestions themselves. The devs are the one who will make the final decision after taking all feedback into consideration.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Didn't the raiders decide to lock down even more raid content after the vote failed?
  8. Phire Journeyman


    You're actually saying it does reflect what people want, simply that EQ players as a whole are horrible people.

    There's a way around that though.
  9. Kahna Augur


    That would have been something they did, so probably.
  10. Aiona Augur

    I said nothing in my reply about a poll, and the post I was specifically replying to said nothing about a poll.

    Not to argue that you're wrong, I don't believe it is either. :)
  11. Kahna Augur


    No, there isn't. Any "way around" it that you think of the horrible people will just find another way to accomplish what they want. It's an arms race they will always win because there are more of them out there thinking up ways to be horrible than there are devs trying to force them to be nice.
    Skuz likes this.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Right but this thread is about polls and they do take a lot of feedback as it is.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. Phire Journeyman

    Perhaps the simplest idea is to simply change the formula slightly. Take submitted ideas as originally stated.

    And then allow people to "vote" with their own time. Create multiple new servers, and the ones that aren't popular simply get shut down after a month. Can't be that hard to measure the amount of people actively playing/leveling.

    I mean if EQ players are really just garbage then literally no matter what DB does won't matter much anyway, so can't hurt to try, really.

    Really though I'm not seeing any better ideas suggested for how to come up with new TLP server rulesets, only naysaying of any proposed ideas.
  14. Aiona Augur

    The thread overall is about the idea of a democratically-created server.

    The conversation became poll focused, but not limited to it.

    The post I replied to wasn't participating in the discussion of polls, and neither was I since it was in direct reply to that post and not to the OP.

    I clearly wasn't giving feedback about polls so I'm not sure where your concern lies. Was it that you thought I was posting off topic? Was it that you think my post is actually going to somehow skew DBG's poll data?
  15. Phire Journeyman

    Yes it pretty much became about polls mostly due to the fact 1 person was focused entirely on finding ways that democracy cannot possibly work through voting.
  16. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    A Polled server would be a horrible mess, too many people take delight from deliberately sh*tting on other's dreams for that to work, and Daybreak know it, they've seen that happen before with other things.
    Aiona and Appren like this.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You do realize that in this case voting and polls are pretty much the exact same thing as they are asking for the players opinion on what the devs should do next.
    Appren and Skuz like this.
  18. Phire Journeyman

    Polls have no controls in order to prevent abuse. Voting typically does.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Voting on the internet is the same thing as polls and they have the same issues.
    Skuz likes this.
  20. Kahna Augur


    It is not our job to come up with new server ideas. It is DPG's. They have come up with some good ideas and some bad ideas and I have confidence that there are still creative folks working for the company who are more than capable of coming up with some decent ideas for TLPs that are both enjoyable and within their capability to create. That is the one part that fans cannot take into consideration. The time and difficulty of implementing new features, which is the biggest reason why players throwing out ideas is mostly a waste of time. Only DPG knows what they have the resources to implement.

    Players originally had the idea for the level locking of a server. DPG implemented it the best they could, and it was a mediocre success at best. Players didn't suggest Mischief rules and that was a riotous success, and still is.

    Have a little faith in the devs who have manage to keep an MMO going for 24 years.