Consider a couple tweaks to the slayer achievements

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Pikollo, Mar 17, 2023.

  1. Pikollo Augur

    For TLP's the progression through the slayer achievements is backwards. The only completable achievement to get 4% in the earlier lifespan of a TLP is also the hardest one. It makes main switching or starting a new character frustrating when you want to progress.

    As it stands right now on a TLP the achievement order in which it can be complete is:

    Force of Nature: 5000-10000 kills (100 deities) (Per chieve)
    Progressive: 5-100 kills (Per chieve)
    Highly Decorative: 250-1000 kills (Per chieve)

    On a live server someone making a new char would start with progressive, then highly decorated, then finish with force of nature as it requires the most kills. Making it easier to go from 2% to 4%.

    My suggestion wouldn't effect live servers at all but would flip the progression of TLP's to match the progression of the achievements. Currently the unlock order for the achievements is this.

    Force of Nature: GoD
    Highly Decorative:VoA
    Progressive: VoA

    So the simple tweak would be to move a one achievement around so the unlocks would flip making the progression through slayer achievements the same as if you started a new character on live. Moving the following achievement from Progressive to Force of Nature would flip the unlocks from VoA to GoD (and vice versa) making Progressive the first unlock on TLPs (at GoD).

    You Can Call Me Alaran - VoA
    Army Ants - UF
    What Has Science Done - SoD

    Edit: The following are optional and won't need to be changed.
    Ursarachnid - CoTF
    Shadows of Lxanvon - CoTF
    Dino-Sore! - TDS
    Readers Die Jest - HoT
    Witch Mount - TDS

    If I missed one sorry. Was a quick scan through of the chieves.

    Edit to reflect the part I missed of some being optional as I overlooked that part sorry.
    Critt, Mithra, Ravanta Suffer and 5 others like this.
  2. Hamedan New Member

    This is a well thought out solution. Thank you for bringing this to light.
  3. brickz Augur

    It's far more likely that they flag the AA to rain of fear than do anything
    Kaenneth likes this.
  4. Captain Video Augur

    This was discussed to some degree in the test patch thread before the change went live, Devs won't alter the current system. You only have to complete one of the three categories to get the bump from 2-4%, so by completing Force of Nature in GoD, that would do the trick. The effect of the bump is miniscule (people parsed it on Test), and IMHO the change renders the whole Slayer system meaningless from the perspective of actual DPS, it's only of value to achievement hunters. Kill 100 skellies in one of the newbie yards as a level 1, and you've got your 2%. See if it makes any real difference in how you play.
  5. Yolan Lorekeeper

    Its a great idea. And with that system it wouldn't deter me from making new characters and spend more money in EQ TLP's. I like to progress my characters but having to kill so much just to get 4% isn't fun. Its tedious. Its not what games are about.
  6. Pikollo Augur

    So what you're saying is you don't even care. So why even post your opinion? Other then you HAVE to have your name in every post.

    TLP - Time Lapsed Progression. Right? Starting with Force of Nature is starting at the end of progression. Its not progressing. Its going to the end right away. Flipping them means you actively progress as the achievements become available. In the current state once VoA opens you'd probably instantly get Highly Decorative once you killed Alarans. In case you missed it. Lower numbers progress into higher numbers.

    But as I said. It would be less frustrating main switching, starting a new char. I know the jump from 2-4 isn't a lot or may not matter a whole ton. But people DO like progressing their chars. It only makes sense to flip the achievements.

    Also I am sure it wouldn't take much manpower to flip a few achievements around.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    The achievements for the banestrike AA didn't change and even at 2% you should see an improvement over the old version of banestrike and when you get 4% it was even better. There shouldn't be a need to have the 7% and 10% earlier in the TLP lifespan.

    I am not sure why there is such an issue about not being able to get all of those AA early on when your ability is already better then it was before the patch with the same achievements that you had.
  8. Captain Video Augur


    Read my lips: They don't care. It's already been argued. >I< argued. Their sole reason for taking out the mob-type banestrike was to eliminate the proc (which wasn't originally needed anyway), because it's part of the ongoing quest to reduce raid lag on Live servers. That's the priority, not how this might affect TLP players.

    Plus, such a change isn't as simple as you might suggest. Veteran players have veteran toons which have already completed Force of Nature. Shuffle things around, and you're taking a hard-earned achievement away from them, and that won't go down without (loud) complaints. Sometimes it's necessary to accept the fact it is what it is.

    As I said before, my advice is to see what 2% will do for you, before going nuts trying to up that to 4%.
  9. Pikollo Augur

    I understand the lag thing and I think its a positive change in that aspect. As for the veterans having veteran things. The suggested changes probably wouldn't effect them. And if it did the numbers are so low they can get them in minutes. Kill 50 brooms? Kill 50 book dervs? The suggested achievements to change are kill 50 mobs. Not kill 5000. And in return if they make a new char thats less achievements they have to complete for their new char to get 4%.


    You may need to read the original post again. The change is not to get to 7% or 10% earlier in a TLP. Its to streamline the achievements the way it would be achieved on live. Progressive requires less kills then one of the Force of Nature achievements. Progressing means you start at the bottom. So 50 kills per chieve not 5000. Anyone who makes a char on a TLP would want to progress their characters. But the system isn't streamlined for us. Its start off killing thousands not hundreds.

    The bottom line is its probably an easy fix. No one can argue that Progressive is supposed to be the first one completed. If they moved some achievements it would be. And the 7% / 10% would still be locked behind later expacs.
  10. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Changing how you got the achievements is not supposed to be part of this change and there is nothing wrong with how you get them. The only achievement you say you can get on the early TLP servers is also the only achievement that you could get prior to this change. There is nothing wrong with that one being the one you can get first on a TLP server. I would also argue that none of them are "hard" to get it just takes time to kill all the needed mobs.

    Short answer is the achievements still work as they did before the patch and there are many other things that the devs can be working on besides making these achievements easier to get.
  11. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I always read "Progressive" like "Inclusive" not "Progressing". You're involving all races in your quest to slay the world.
  12. Pikollo Augur

    So basically what you're saying is its ok for people to overlook what "should be" and always just go with what is. Because there are things wrong with the system in the sense that its not progressive. Which is how these things are supposed to be. To say changing the achievements wasn't part of the patch. You're right. But they should have been. Had someone looked in to the effect it has on EQ as a whole. Its like saying "bard armor doesn't need endurance". Bards do just fine right? Why go back and change it? Its how it is. When they made aa changes they didn't need to look at bard armor.


    I actually do want that title lol.
  13. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    It is progressive but that doesn't mean that it will be available earlier on a TLP server then the other achievements. There is no reason to change the achievements just because banestrike has become more desirable after the patch. You can still get the full 10% on a TLP server just not as soon as you want it.
  14. Pikollo Augur

    So you missed the point too? Its not to get 10% earlier. Its to move a couple achievements around so that the Progressive achievement (the achievement called Progressive) would be the one completed first on TLP's. If you move the sub achievements mentioned from Achievement: Progressive to Achievement: Force of Nature then Achievement: Progressive will be completable on TLP's at GoD and Achievement: Force of Nature completable in CoTF.

    It would make the kill 5-100 sub achievements come first. Then the sub achievements from Highly Decorated would come next in VoA (250-1000 kills). Then finally Force of Nature which is 5000-10000 kills. All per sub achievement.

    No one is asking for it all to be completed earlier on a TLP. Its just making it so Achievement: Progressive comes first. Thereby making it easier to start new chars on TLP's, or start on a TLP. And streamlining it with how they would progress on live via slayer achievements.

    I know its confusing talking about progression and progressing when the achievement is called Progressive.
    Kaenneth likes this.
  15. Pikollo Augur

    Its honestly a small, minor, probably easy change that would effect everyone in the game positively. I don't know how anyone can argue against it.
    Kaenneth likes this.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Missed what point? The change was made to help server performance and it wasn't made to make any achievement harder or easier to get. There is nothing about the change that warrants spending any time on changing the achievements instead spending that time on other planned work.
  17. Ythera Augur

    Will someone really be frustrated that they can't get that extra little bit of damage or healing because of this? Only the manic and obsessive.
  18. Pikollo Augur

    The change was made with the intentions of decreasing server lag. I get it. But in the process they changed how banestrike works. Now that they changed that then the whole system warrants a look at. Changing one thing means another thing changed which means another thing may change. When you do a job you should do it start to finish, thoroughly. Not just "make it work".

    They were already in the system changing all of this so saying "spending time on other planned work" is dumb because this is/was planned work and the achievements, streamline, progression of slayers coulda/shoulda been looked at when they were working on it in the first place. Maybe they didn't realize it. Maybe they don't in fact care. But as I said above. I don't know how anyone can argue against the very minor change when it benefits everyone.

    Simple fact is you can't argue against what I said. You just keep your argument up (as you do with most posts) about how other things (important to you I am sure) need to be looked at and worked on instead of what anyone else suggests.

    Prove me wrong that my suggestion is not accurate and I'll concede the argument to you. Without defaulting to its not warranted, needed or any of the other BS excuses you use so you don't have to agree with someone.
  19. Pikollo Augur

    I really don't understand why every post someone makes making a suggestion ends in the same same guys wanting to argue with the OP about how IT WORKS and THERES OTHER THINGS but can never give a valid reason why the suggestion isn't a good or bad one. Even if someone makes a suggestion that wouldn't work then explain it. Don't always default to your same tired arguments.
    Kaenneth and Ravanta Suffer like this.
  20. Yolan Lorekeeper

    I'll be nice since there's an xp bonus going on. Lets just say forum trolls are less desirable irl and this is how they get their fun.