If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

I still think it’s just as niche and unpopular as I did 100 pvp tlp threads ago.

I think the last time they rallied 50 some people in game in support of a PvP server was years ago, nothing since. Red P99 has shrunk considerably since then, too.

Will never happen... the financial business case will never allow for it.

It doesn't take much work to create a bunch of sock puppet accounts to in order to show this interest and even a simple event that was just logging onto the server didn't draw much interest.

You dont understand.
Tallon Zek, Sullon Zek, every Zek except for Rallos Zek has something in common.
Even WoW Alliance vs Horde has something in common with every Zek except for Rallos Zek.

Rallos Zek is absolute garbage ruleset, hence why it failed.
P99 Red, which ruleset did they use?

Let me quote this guy again, he speaks so much truth,
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/april-new-pvp-tle-server-coming.608475/

Let me say this again.
You ask PvP'er why PvP has a very low player population, not a PvE player.
You ask EQ player why EQ has a very low player population. Not a WoW player.

This quote is good, I'm doing it again.

Lots of words when the only answer is:

The PvP community was told to show up to show interest. They didn't. DBG is not going to create a server to cater to people who are not even there. You can hem and haw about PvP rulesets, but the people who run the game told PvPers what to do if they wanted a server, and they didn't show up. Case closed.

You don't seem to understand, the devs have stated they need evidence of PvP being popular and are judging it based on the current PvP server. If the people who want a TLP PvP server can't be bothered to log on to that server because it isn't the perfect ruleset they want why would they log on to a subscription server if it isn't the perfect rules they ant?

You are trying to compare EQ PvP to WoW PvP when one game has poorly tuned PvP and the other has many mechanics built around PvP and it is tuned all the time to ensure it is balanced as possible.

It should also be noted that WoW factions are more to the game then the PvP aspect.

40 seems an awfully generous number.

A low population at server start would mean low bag and potion sales. I don't think PvP is happening.

It's funny some of you are bringing WoW up. Even Blizzard gave up on the concept of PvP servers years ago and replaced them with a server-agnostic "War Mode" opt-in toggle. The classic WoW servers that lack this feature are so imbalanced toward one faction or another that they are PvP servers in name only.

Nobody actually wants open PvP in their PvE MMO.

why would we stay and support the game you destroyed for us? that makes zero sense. we left because you abandoned the community (you took the three pvp servers left, straight shuttered the most popular w/o reason and merged the last 2 into the least popular ruleset), we left as a whole you scared us into DAoC and WoW's arms, and their arms were open, while yours was closed. ponder that.

The 3rd party cheating software would be dominant. Welcome to getting Velkator dropped on your head.

you say you played on sullon zek, the deity pvp server, but yet say it wasnt popular? then you're lying.
it was the most popular server every day, every hour through its entire short lifespan, more than povar each and every time you checked... triton and FoH checked daily! im sure you can find their logs and see the evidence.

considering resources to make and correct a sinking ship...

pvp tlp would be the easiest test to see if it would in fact be an answer.
but otherwise go on and feed the geriatric krono farmers who will die eventually. no one is going to continue their trade, their are indeed a dying breed/industry within the game.
once they dead, so is your game.
pvp tlp is an easy way to see if the resources you have still on old servers could be re-vamped for a new generation. seems pretty safe and monetarily efficient, since you own all the hardware and software already created. but hey, this is not my hill to die on. i'm here to say 'hey, this is a great idea', but you have ignored the idea because you all love John Smedley's sabotage over Brad's vision. and thus the state of the game today, and the community representing it.

so what you're saying is you play everquest w/o any knowledge of Brad McQuaid and the Vision. That's cool, but to say pvp wasnt part of the game, is a misunderstanding of the history of EQ. Tanarus was the building blocks of EQ, a purely pvp game.

I never said it wasn't popular, it was a good sized server, for back in the day. If a TLP launched with that population now it would be considered mediocre, at best. TLPs have 2-3 times the people that Sullon Zek did in it's heyday. Times have changed. What qualifies as a high population has changed. Can't really use 20+ year old data and apply it to today's standards.

TLPs nowadays probably pull in 1% of the EQ Golden age population. 1% of Sullon Zek's starting population isn't going to make a successful server. 10% is still going to be a failure. If you got every single person from Sullon Zek to play on a PvP TLP it would still probably be one of the worst TLP launches to date.

you'd be incorrect once again.
one lets not do numbers, since they will change with generations. Lets do % of players playing. So if 100% players play, doesnt matter what the number is, you have 100% of the market.
Now SZ when it was active had the majority of players in the EQ market.
done.

also to add, those that are going about this as, 'omg pvp how dare you, we dont have time for this crap'
that's fine.
but if you do go with a pvp tlp and thats the attitude you take, it will fail.
if you want pvp tlp to come here, you better want it. you better make it tasty for players to want to come back. for they have long memories of being treating very badly by EQ.
if not, dont bother, keep making krono farm servers in obscurity.

It's good to see that people who don't understand math exist in the PVP camp just as much as the free trade camp.

SZ had most of the players in the EQ market? What are you smoking? There were literally dozens of PvE servers with populations as large or larger than SZ. No to mention, if SZ was all that and a box of cracker jacks it wouldn't have died so quickly.

Even a server with 100% of the SZ market would only have 30% of what a standard TLP launch has. Sure, they are totally going to go that route and not the one that will sell 3 times as many bags.

And, just to shoot holes in you "Team PVP for the win" argument for funsies. SZ had much the same issues that many of the WoW classic PVP servers had. Too many folks on one faction, which then caused folks on the other factions to give up and either leave the game or switch to the easy faction. 100% would happen again. Within a few weeks of a Teams PVP TLP launching the forums would blow up demanding that DPG prevent any more people from rolling evil, or give good/neuts bonuses to encourage people to roll them. They wouldn't, or they wouldn't do enough, and the imbalance would only get worse. Then it would fail and you would come on here blaming DPG's inability to balance the factions as the reason it failed, not the fact that EQ PVP is just bad, and people switched factions because they don't really want to PvP. They just want to gank the weaker team until they all leave the server.

I think you misunderstand the vision. Brad is on record in interviews saying no to PvP. If it was part of his vision, wouldn't it have been a big part of vanguard? Wouldn't it be a big part of Pantheon? It would be logical that in his follow up games he would have focused more on that right? Brad cared about immersive world building, that's what the vision centered around.