T3 Launch Day Grats

No lag for my raid org, but I think we only had 3 bards. =\

good catch! I meant a different college phenom, Shaquille O'Neal. I also meant Bob McNobodyson who not only wasn't a basketball player then, but has never existed, and you. Those are also people who can be trivially recognized as not having been on the Dream Team by their not being one of the twelve that received a Olympic Gold Medal for Basketball in 1992.

For thirteen years running, RoI's as a guild got Gold Medals for all the participating players. This year, they (you) collectively eschewed Gold Medals for all but one participant, to convince a third party blogger that the win was a little better.

Ah, I see. I don't get the contention, that's not even a little bit under-handed. That strategy is like winning a triathlon because the other athletes decided to hit up the juice stand between the three events.

As a non-raider, the takeaway from my perspective is that in an end-game without difficult content that extends the killing period to weeks or months, the meta is oriented toward time optimization aka speed running and skipping a lengthy reward phase is speedrunning 101.

There has always been a conception of "first", going back to the earliest days of EQ and other MMOs, predating ingame achievement systems. The standard has never been that the acquisition of the achievement is what people race for, it's a race to see who beats the content.

Foregoing the achievement is not different in kind from say, foregoing loot opportunity to move the raid force to the next event. You're skipping out on one of the rewards, but it doesn't affect whether or not you beat the event at a given time.

The main purpose of the achievement as it relates to the "leader boards" and such is as an audit system if a guild's time appears to be incorrect or (gasp) fraudulent, as a way for outsiders to verify. But that would only be relevant if it was seriously questioned as to whether a guild beat an event at a certain time--and since I think RoI and several of the other guilds doing this video all their kills, they would have secondary verification anyway (and since they actually had 1 of their members get the achievement they have a verifiable timestamp there as well.)

They could also just make requesting linear and we'd all save an enormous amount of time and effort.

This seems like the obvious solution to me.

I don’t agree with Szilent; however, it brings up an interesting point, what happens if that toon is deleted/sold/changes guilds/retires/banned for M Q use….

If only one player had the original timestamp, all other members have a week later, would it become “no winner” like the Lance Armstrong scenario or would they be relegated in history to 25th as the only verified remaining timestamp is a week later.

The guild won, that's not being disputed. Only a stupid person would say otherwise, now or any time in the future.

The only thing that might change that is EGL becoming defunct? Which - in that case, whoops?

But that sort of consideration, yes, strongly hints that something different went on this year than normal.

Again, can't focus on a specific aspect. Toon with the check box didn't get there by themself, there was an entire guild there. That guild completed the events first, not every member of the guild (alts, bench,etc), but the standard has always which guild, beat the events first.

By that measure RoI, then SR, then RA, then MS etc. If the measure is to change it needs to be a different discussion. But as of now it's RoI.


So apparently at least in part I agree with Szilent, no dispute on which guild won.

Since we raid only once per week, my raid org is generally more focused on getting loot (wins). If we can get the achievement along the way by slight change to strat, sure, let's try. But if it's one of those "Allow eleventy billion penalty mobs to stack up before winning." achievements, we save that to the end of the expansion.

This thread was locked due to be derailed and trolling. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?help/terms